(no subject)

[olivermoss]

* There is talk of letting 19 years olds from Canadian juniors play in the AHL. They should be allowed to go AHL as soon as they are drafted. Otherwise, franchises have to put baby rookies on NHL ice or not be able to develop them. This isn't the biggest issue in hockey, but how this intra-league weirdness is currently feeds into / causes / etc a lot of problems so I really want to see this changed.

* Also, randomly since I am hockey posting... There are identical mirror twins in the upcoming draft and it's not impossible they wind up on the same team. I think it's Vancouver who has the right combo of picks to get them? Imagine the drama if a team goes for a matched set of very practiced line mates and someone snipes the other brother.

Comments

[dine]

Vancouver's had twins before - the Sedins played together there for years, though I don't know if they were drafted together, or one joined later on

[rekishi]

AGAIN VANCOUVER WITH THE TWINS?!

Sorry. Arrrrrgh. No, please not again. Vancouver has a track record with identical twins (look up the Sedins) and I know it was seriously weird for players and audience both. I mean, Vancouver fans and players totally embraced it, but...well, how could they not. But the Sedins also had a stare to them, it was a bit unsettling.

Honestly, I would not be too concerned about the brothers ending up on different teams. It'll be weird for a tad for them, but not overly so. Eventually, this might develop into a whole Staal situation (getting traded to where your brother is already playing), but overall it's probably a good thing for them to play on separate teams especially if they're not totally matched in skill.

I'm not too concerned about letting kids stay in juniors for another year. Yes, for very exceptional players that can be an issue, because they put up 120+ point seasons and don't have anyone to really play against who's at their level. But the junior teams (at least in the OHL and in the Q, I can't speak for what's going on further out west) usually have the infrastructure in place for players at that age. The AHL is a way different mix of ages and experiences and that's going to be very hit or miss whether that will work out and maybe your first and second round picks are not the ones you want to experiment with that much.

Of course, the other side of that coin is that it's easier to get your super young players in the room with your experienced players if they are in the AHL. I know we have a few kids in juniors and also in the AHL that we would love to get in the room with Sid while he's still playing, but they're just not there yet. The Caps just had their college prospect go pro on D and that's going to be interesting with Carlson gone but Ovi still in the room for a few weeks at least and no word on next season.

[rekishi]

As I said below, yes Vancouver has a weird thing for twins, I knew you'd remember :D <3

They were drafted together 2nd and 3rd overall by Vancouver. Brian Burke made a whole series of trades just to ensure he'd be able to get them both.

[olivermoss]

I was aware Van had twins previously, but didn't know people were weird about it. Apparently, the Ruck brothers are extremely good line mates and that would be fun to see. They are pretty close in skill, and Van gets two picks close together due to pick trading. Van's had it struggles, so seeing them get the twins might be exciting.

Some major juniors out here are great. The Portland Winterhawks are a big deal, but some of the other teams really aren't and don't have much support. But there is also the NCAA path that more are choosing each year for a variety of reasons. It's possible the first and second overall this year will be Canadians who opted for NCAA.

[olivermoss]

I'd heard that, which is one reason why people are excited about them maybe getting twins again. They've been line mates a lot time and that synergy would be exciting, and the Canucks fans could use something fun going on in their franchise.

[rekishi]

During All Star Games and stuff when they did fantasy drafts rather than splitting the players up by conference/division or whatever, usually the twins got separated, Sure, they were also great linemates but people wanted to see them on opposite sides.

I for sure thought Vancouver would go for McKenna, provided they'd get to pick first overall (I need to look up how the lottery works these days, I have no clue anymore). I like that NCAA is becoming a more popular choice, the new Caps rookie played for Boston...College? Boston U? One of those. Until he decided to go pro now. I hope to catch a game to watch him. (are the Caps my team? No. can I appreciate a decent offensive D-man? totally.)

[olivermoss]

Oh, yeah, Rucks are going late first, not first overall. There is a lot of wackiness with who has whose picks right now.

It's statistically massively unlikely, but not out of the range of possibility that Bruins get to pick first. It's so slim a chance it's not really worth thinking about, but if they do nab McKenna that would be insane. The situation with the Leafs having sold off picks might be rough for them.

Offensive defensemen are great! I totally get being a fan of players and not necessarily the team. I have a few goalies in that category.

[rekishi]

Picky get shuffled pretty crazily every year. I think the only thing we can be sure of right now is that Ottaw will pick #32 in the first round, everything else is up in the air.

The Leafs are always only one trade away from winning the Stanley Cup :) (that is hyperbole, but also a long running joke, unfortunately. I do wish they would at least get to the Finals at some point just to put that whole discussion to rest, but being a Leafs fan is not easy, I think) The Bruins drafting McKenna would be sort of funny, but I'm not seeing it right now. But I'm also not seeing McKenna turning around the Rangers, should he end up there by some miracle. Let's see what he can do, the draft should be interesting.

Well, it's the Caps. They are our division rival, but I do keep an eye on them. I'm glad they got their Cup. I used to know more guys on that team pretty well for reasons. I also enjoy watching Cale Makar, but I liked my offensive d-men before he ever entered the scene.

[olivermoss]

People definitely talk like being a Leafs fan is rough. I think that trying to be an Oliers fan would break me, way too grimdark.

I hope McKenna winds up some place that's a good fit for him. Rangers would be interesting. I don't know how much work they've go to do to rebuild, but I do know they sniped our Tye Kartye off of waivers and he's been working out well for them.

[rekishi]

At least the Oilers make it to the finals on occasion. The Leafs just...don't. The Leafs are just.... Like that.

Rangers are... Hm. A rebuild usually takes around 7-8 years (incl developing prospects etc). The Pens managed somewhat quicker, but that was with Mario out of retirement and Sidney living with him. (And Ilya Kovalkchuk of all people teaching Sid a lesson he only very occasionally forgets, because Sidney was a little shit when he first came to the league.) Anyway, the Rangers have tried to rebuild a few years ago already, they'd sent a similar letter to the fans and it's been a bit frustrating being a Rangers fan from what I understand. They should still be in the middle of the rebuild and then they get another letter that they're levelling the team and... Yeah. Well.

I don't usually look much at prospects but for various reasons the talk of McKenna was hard to avoid.

[olivermoss]

Last few years for the Oilers have been brutal, and the players are still trying to be all in. My feelings about the Oilers are mostly based on the Amazon Prime show Faceoff: Inside the NHL that documented the last two cup runs.

Kraken are new and the Sharks are theoretically exiting their rebuild, so I don't know much about what it's like to go through one. Only that some fans are just in love with the idea of tanking and think we'd only have to do it one year to solve our problems and .... no. Gosh, a lot of fans are wrong about things.

I have the luxury of not feeling the need to have an opinion on McKenna. He's not going to be on any team follow. I don't care if he lands on a team that's a good fit for him hockey or career wise, I just hope it's a space that gives him a chance to get his shit together and wont make shit worse.

[rekishi]

I don't even have a good reason to have the Oil on my radar, but between their rookie trifecta 15 years ago (Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle) and osmosis via Draisaitl being Captain Germany, they're not really escapable.

Rebuilds are pretty painful. The Pens and Caps are currently trying to do it on he fly while they still have their older top talent and I agree that getting as many young players in the room with either Crosby or Ovi is the way to go. At the same time, you can't rush that. It's worth looking at what worked and what didn't (Carolina, Tampa, Oilers, but also the Habs, Canucks and Islanders).

I'm not sure the Rangers have really been very good at any point past the Lundqvist-Staal-Avera era, that would actually be worth a look. I'm not sure of it's a culture thing or what. But they've also clearly given up for the year.

I don't really have an opinion on McKenna. He's 18, he should get to grow up a bit more before having the weight on a franchise on his shoulders on top of the other shit he has to deal with.

[olivermoss]

Oilers are in my division, and it feels like they are the only team the wider hockey world doesn't treat like a joke. At the start of the season I was also keeping more of an eye on them because they've got Prokop on their AHL team and he did play with them in pre-season. I'd planned to follow the Oilers in general more than I did.

I don't know much about the Rangers, other than having weird regional biases and them being specifically a Manhattan based team. (I know a bit about their stadium's logistics, tho!)

Agreed about McKenna.

[rekishi]

You mean this season? I think folks take the division seriously, just no one gets why all the teams are so bad. People want to see the Kings in the playoffs (if only for Kopi), want to see the Oilers gets a Cup, that sort of stuff. But yes, Pacific is weird this season.

I used to know more about the Rangers. What I know now about the Rangers is that they suck this season. ^^;

[olivermoss]

I don't know if it's a 'this season' thing or an ongoing thing, I got the impression people had been dismissive of it for a while. But again, I lack some context. To me, it's weird that the divisions haven't always been like this. Having the Kraken be the 32nd team makes everything split out very evenly.

The tighter schedule does hit this division harder, but it shouldn't be that much of a factor. And again, it's management's job to finds ways to compensate for that as much as possible. Win or lose, Kraken ticket prices remain painful. We are not a strapped franchise.

Former Rangers Player Ron Duguay has explained at least one of the Rangers losses.

[rekishi]

There's a division every year that sort of craps the bed. I think the year Bruce Boudreau won the Jack Adams, the Southeast division (hm...Florida, Carolina, Atlanta, Washington, that area-ish) was terrible. Like seriously terrible. And I think that wasn't so far removed from Carolina and Tampa winning Cups, either, I just don't remember on which side of it.

But there's usually a division that does terribly, it goes in cycles a bit. Central has just been unusually strong for a few years (although the Aves always have had an edge as long as I watch NHL hockey).

Divisions didn't just used to be different (this got re-aligned in 2014), but also even in this division format, play used to be different. When they first re-aligned the conferences, the division members were playing against each other 6 times a season, then 3-4 times in their own conferences and then 2 times inter-conference. That sort of made sense especially since they wanted division rivalries. (I don't know when they changed that, might have been with the addition of the Knights maybe.) And I heard they're adjusting it again so everyone plays everyone the same amount of games...which absolutely makes NO SENSE TO ME.

Anyway, the teams within the Pacific are mostly pretty well established and respected. I think people do make some annoyed fun of the Knight for reasons but overall, it's fine. But the name Pacific makes as little sense as the Atlantic does, really.

[olivermoss]

With 32 teams the math comes out very nicely with even numbers across the divisions. Why wouldn't you want teams all playing the same number of games, unless it's a travel time issue?

I hope that Pacific teams are respected, because it feels like Seattle is either ignored or made fun of. During national broadcasts, they keep not even knowing who our captain is. It makes sense they'd know more about older team, ones they've been covering/following for ages, but it would be nice if they could know at least two things.

[rekishi]

Well. If you want to foster rivalries to the point where the playoffs are geared towards it, you want to see your rivals play against each other more often even during the season. When they Caps and Pens were playing each other 6 times a season (or the Pens and Flyers), you were guaranteed an entertaining game for sure. Sure, I do want to see my team play the Western Conference teams as well, but if I only see them play each other in the playoffs in the literal Stanley Cup playoffs, I'm not that invested in watching that matchup 3-4 times a season instead of 2 (I think everyone will play everyone 3 times now, idk how that will work out with home/way fairness). Same for inter-divisional play, if I will literally only see my team play the Bolts in the Conference finals but my team has to go through the division first, I want to see that more often than anyone else.

I don't really see much of the Pacific unless it's a very convenient matinee while they're in the east, but at least on the podcasts I have been listening to intermittently it sounds well respected enough. The Kraken are not currently in anyone's focus for obvious reason and we will see a lot of pillows during the playoffs on the ice (thanks, Connor), but other than that I would wait and see what happens next year.

[olivermoss]

I'd also like to see more games in the division or conference. It would take a chunk of the strain off teams like mine that get less down time and less practice time than the more clustered teams.

Kraken are still a pretty new team and our AHL got a delayed start due to Covid. Honestly, Firebirds are pretty hype for how new they are and have a really nice venue. I'd love to see a game someday. But, sadly they are all the way in So Cal.