(no subject)

[olivermoss]

* I did some photowalking and errands and other stuff yesterday. I got a harvest bowl at laughing planet and I am still full. I have walked miles and slept since then, but I am still too stuffed with quinoa, sweet potato and their take on a sort of green goddess dressing. I got an allergy-friendly muffin at the craft fair and it's still in a bag on my desk.

* I bought 2 washi tapes while I was out. Out of a the couple hundred my local store has on display, they had one (1) plaid that wasn't obviously meant to be christmassy. It was a basic buffalo plaid, which I'd wanted enough for a cozy winter layout that I'd actually tried hand drawing some. I also got a pine forest one on a white background so the background sort of disappears onto the page. They have a lot of lovely washi, but honestly most of it I don't know what it would be used for.






(Sticking the hand drawn behind the sticker makes it look less jank)



* I am taking a few days off from writing much to read. I did write a lot last month. I mostly need to edit, but it's good to also read... but how to find things worth reading among the 13,677 Steddie fics?

Comments

[dolorosa_12]

I love that pine forest washi tape — and it looks fantastic in the journal, especially alongside the stickers.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, it the pine tree one works really well!

[mistressofmuses]

Aw, I really like the pine tree washi tape! And the plaid, too. I think your hand-drawn looks quite nice (though hand-drawing plaid seems very nightmareish actually.)

[olivermoss]

Yeah, the pine tree stuff works really well. The plaid is okay as a background element. Part of why the plaid is a pain is that I can't power through it, I'd smudge the ink. I may give it one more stab, but yeah I cannot imagine doing that on the regular.

[mistressofmuses]

Oh, jeez, I wasn't even thinking about the frustration of possibly smudging or smearing the ink. (And I basically wind up smearing mine every week, lol.) That would make it slow-going, and not something to just quickly move through.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I am used to that because I've done some big inking projects. I am kinda of used to inking while I watch a show.

Fortunately, it looks like the buffalo plaid washi lines up properly so you can fill a space with it. The grid washi I got a while back does not. I thought it would be interesting for synthwave vibes, but I can't fill with it.

[mistressofmuses]

I basically always screw up inking because I'm too impatient, lol. (And, as discussed earlier this year, was probably using inferior materials. I screwed up so many drawings that I'd given DAYS to dry, but that still smeared when I tried to erase the pencil.)

Ooh, that's nice! That's something I wanted to try and look for in washi tape at some point - some attractive patterns that line up properly to do repeating designs with. (That's the thing I can see looking cool in a faux papercut style.) But a lot of the ones I've seen definitely won't work that way.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, my attempts at getting into inking got derailed time and time again by wrong materials. I swear most of the value of taking an art course is that they go 'you will use this pen and this specific paper and this eraser and this brush'. There are so many weird fussy things about how art supplies do and don't work together and people act like the knowledge is some sacred secret.

[mistressofmuses]

I had NO idea that the materials were likely to matter so much, especially when I was younger. It's not necessarily surprising, and I know I was definitely using the cheapest materials I could buy/whatever I happened to have already. But still, it's vindicating to know it wasn't JUST me fucking things up!

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I was so angry when I realized I'd wasted years. I had this idea stuck in my head that I had to use cheap stuff to grind out my skills before I could use good stuff.

[mistressofmuses]

That is VERY much a feeling that I've basically always had about any artistic endeavor - that I've got to do x hours with the shitty supplies until my skills "deserve" nicer materials. (And that using nicer materials before I've gotten to some measure of "good" would be a horrific, unforgivable waste.)

[olivermoss]

"It's a poor craftsman that blames their tools" Whoever came up with that needs to be sent to a very special hell. Materials make a night and day difference, especially while learning.

[mistressofmuses]

It's SUCH a frustrating sentiment. I understand its purpose, and sometimes it's fair... but sometimes, the tools really AREN'T WORKING RIGHT, and having that "truism" to fall back on makes people really unfairly dismissive when people are having a hard time.

Yeah, if it's actually a lack of patience/technique, bitching that IF ONLY I HAD THE BESTEST SUPPLIES IT WOULD BE PERFECT isn't actually true or helpful. But sometimes you're using shitty materials that fundamentally can't do what a better quality can, no matter how careful or precise you are.

"This controller is broken!" is a gaming excuse cliche... until the buttons really are broken.

[olivermoss]

It doesn't even need to be the bestest, just things that are suitable for working together... except when it comes to colored pencils OMG, the different is night and day.

I know I've mentioned this before, but my hate of videos where pro artists use dollar store or rose art supplies is unending. If you are literally a pro, you can work with a massive handicap. Also, sometimes the results only look good because of the high end camera they are using. They are selling an idea that is honestly BS.

[mistressofmuses]

Colored pencils are a HUGE difference. Probably the biggest!

Acrylic paint is one that I've personally noted the difference in quality for, though midgrade will do just fine. But the amount of pigmentation and how smooth it is REALLY is a huge difference between better grade paints and the cheaper craft paints. Less of a big deal if you're painting something large, maybe, but when you're doing super fine detail work, the difference is VERY significant.

Roseart, my beloathed. I do really get frustrated by that whole trend of "using the cheapest possible stuff to make AMAZING ART!" thing. I mean, it is a flex, but... It's SUCH an unrealistic expectation to set. Because yeah, pro-level skills DO make up for some of the struggle with sub-par materials. That doesn't mean that everyone can have the same results with those materials, or that they should be required to put in thousands of hours of practice only using those materials to "get good" enough to do so.
And you're absolutely right - a really great high-end camera, and a professional lighting setup can do wonders for what something looks like.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, those Roseart videos are always sold as 'Anyone can make art!' because you can use cheap supplies. That stuff does so much damage.

[mistressofmuses]

For real! I can see it being SO demotivating when someone tries with those subpar materials and doesn't like the result (because Roseart pencils are the worst thing in the damn world)... but gosh, must just be them! Because so-and-so made these AMAZING pieces with just these, so...

I mean, fair enough that hey, even if you are dead broke, you can do art. You shouldn't feel like you have to wait to afford "good" supplies, either - play with ballpoints and a crappy memo pad if that's what you have. But have realistic expectations, and invest in better supplies once you're able, if it's something you enjoy, because there IS a difference.

[olivermoss]

Dip pens work out to being amazingly cheap, even with very nice handles for hand comfort. Accessible art should focus on ballpoint pens, dip pens and stuff that does actually work well.

Watercolors are weird. It's expensive to get set up, but you use tiny amounts. Over time, it can be very cheap even when using the good stuff. I did whole projects with sample cards.

There are a lot of ways to tame the costs, but realistic expectations and knowledge of what supplies can and can't do is key. Otherwise people just feel inept, which seems to be the actual goal of some 'tutorials and guides' in art, just to flex. I don't know how common it is, I just know I run into it.

[mistressofmuses]

Agreed. I'm happy for attention to be paid to easily accessible options for art, because hey, I've been there, where I really couldn't splurge on even mid-quality supplies. But there ARE cheap as hell options that work well and can be used for a lot!

Or yes, there are options that require some investment up front, but will last practically forever, so if you can make it work, you basically have minimal future expense.

I wish, honestly, that more people would also be honest about where you get the best return on investment. Like "hey, the jump from x cheap brand to y mid-range product is HUGE and will help massively! Once you're using y, top-shelf z is a bit better, but is a pretty small upgrade in the grand scheme, so if you're happy with y, don't feel the need to change."

I think you're definitely right that however they may be presented, a lot of those "tutorials" are WAY more about flexing the artist's ability than the accessibility of the art. And sure, it IS a flex, but I'd be more impressed and less annoyed if they'd be upfront about that.
Frustratingly, a lot of people seem to think the best way to show off their own skill is to make other people feel inferior, which ALSO impresses me far less.

[There are similar things in the model-painting world - pro-level artists that will sometimes show off how they can create amazing work with cheap paints and a super low-end airbrush or the like. Some of those are legit tutorials about how to make the most of those materials, meant specifically for beginners who may not have invested in nicer materials. Others are downright deceptive, where they're actually using better quality supplies while telling you to substitute something cheap, and acting like it won't make a difference. "I'm using high-flow Golden brand paint for this, but you can thin down cheap Folk Art acrylics with water and get the same effect!" bitch no you can't.]

[olivermoss]

Yeah, wasting time and materials due to bad info sucks. Buying supplies that aren't suitable is a waste of money no matter how cheap they are. It's just weird layers of gatekeeping and keeping an edge on other artists, all this BS about supplies and misleading tutorials.

To me, it seems like the medium is a big thing. The cost over time difference between watercolors and markers and other supplies is astronomical.

[mistressofmuses]

Exactly. Wasting a few dollars on supplies that you can't even use (FUCK YOU ROSEART AND YOUR SCRATCHY LOW PIGMENT PENCILS) is far more of a waste than waiting and "splurging" on supplies that will at least do what you want at a basic level.

It's really frustrating how frequently those same attitudes from skilled artists come up, regardless of what type of art it is... and it really seems like it's just constant insecurity. That if they put out the information on technique, or supplies, etc., where just ANYONE can access it, then they could lose their place on the top of the heap. Better to outright lie and try to ensure that no one can try to succeed!

And yes - medium is a big part of whatever the ultimate costs are going to be. Some things require higher initial investment, but almost nothing in terms of maintenance afterwards. Other stuff is "cheaper"... but requires pretty much constant repurchasing of supplies.

[olivermoss]

What cheap colored pencils due to wrists should be illegal.

I am so sick of gatekeeping and squirrelyness in all sorts of creative stuff. It's so tiring.

For watercolorists, if you've got tubes it's trivial to make samplers for other painters. A tube is So Much Paint and it's so easy to pour little pans for people. Imagine people being cooperative instead of desperately clinging to any advantage.

When I knew people who sold at convention artist alleys it was vicious at times. People would freak out if you even asked them questions.

[mistressofmuses]

Ugh, terrible colored pencils are MURDER on your hands and wrists!

And seriously. The gatekeeping shit is *exhausting* and so annoying to deal with. Whether it's pros showing off their work yet treating things like what supplies they use like state fucking secrets, or ones who lie about their process to attempt to make other people give up... it's crap!

Right!? This... fear of "competition" or whatever it is just seems... so sad to me. If you actually enjoy art, I'd think you'd want more people to do it. And if you're an artist secure in your own work, you shouldn't be worried about people somehow replacing you, because no one CAN. There are so many ways that someone could be encouraging to others, ways artists could cooperate to share supplies and techniques in ways that benefit everyone involved, as opposed to trying desperately to discourage other people from doing anything.
No one should feel forced into being a teacher or mentor, but my complaints aren't about people who are just being quiet in their own corner, lol. It's the ones that either ACT like a teacher, but are actually trying to make other people feel worse about their skills, OR the ones who are actively hostile.

I haven't been in an artist alley in a decade+, but I remember some downright bizarre attitudes from artists. Like, a friend paging through some prints that were for sale, and making an offhand complimentary remark about a design being really creative and the artist's immediate reaction being something about "well, it's MINE, so don't copy it."
Like a walking "MY OC, DO NOT STEAL!!!!" note. I mean, that's not being weird about process exactly, but still... you're selling this piece, presumably because you hope people will like it, so why get weird about someone saying they like it?

[olivermoss]

The AA and Dealer's hall were under me when I helped run anime conventions. I didn't run them directly, but I had a lot to do with them and vetted who made it in and didn't. People can make a living off of AAs in Oregon and Washington, which makes it very vicious. Some people travel from the east coast for some PNW cons because they can be that profitable.

Yeah, no one has to mentor others but the constant gatekeeping and asking like casual questions are attacks gets insane. Art is one of those things where having a community can help so much especially since there are so many fussy ins and outs to how art programs work or how traditional art products work together.

I'm just tired. I always feel on the outside of vicious gatekeeping and I like explaining what I do know.

[mistressofmuses]

I know there are some HUGE destination cons in the PNW, and that I've known some artists who for several years had a travel circuit between cons because that WAS their main source of income. But it really sucks that its success makes it so cutthroat.

Exactly. There's a huge difference between "forced mentorship" and "actively hostile". It's fine to just like... chill. But the people who are overtly hostile (or fake-nice, of the "flex-disguised-as-tutorial" or "lying about their materials" kinds) are so awful and exhausting. Art is absolutely a field where community can make a huge difference. No one should have to reinvent the wheel on everything they do.

I do find gatekeeping exhausting. I don't enjoy being on the wrong side of it, and have no desire to be on the "in" side while keeping others out, either. I mean, I know there can be SOME level of beneficial gatekeeping, of the basic "create an account, learn to search for some of the information you're looking for because it has been discussed before" kind, where asking for SOME investment of effort can improve the overall community. But NOT the kind of nastiness we're talking about. Finding a thing that works is rewarding, and personally I find sharing that info rewarding, too!

[olivermoss]

Yeah, there does need to be some level of boundaries but what I keep running into is just nuts. Either people freaking out over casual questions or people acting like 'omg the community is so good, support this community' and what they mean is help establish their vicious, gatekeeping clique.

God for a time machine to just keep me away from the con scenes, even though that is supposed to be the place to hang out with the geeks and stuff.

[mistressofmuses]

That's exactly it. Boundaries are reasonable. But the shit we're actually complaining about here is WAY beyond that. Lashing out over genuine, casual questions, or actively trying to force other people out of the community are NOT reasonable boundaries. It IS super cliquey, and ugh. Do not need any more groups of Mean Girls (or Mean Boys. Or Mean Anyone.) trying to claw their way up at everyone else's expense.

Ugh. Cons SHOULD be a great space to hang out with the kind of people I largely want to hang out with... but hoo boy can they be toxic drama pits.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, it's like with cons I saw all the big neon signs saying 'find your people here! Lots of geeks looking for friends or just to have for the weekend!' and I walked through that door and it didn't go well.

[mistressofmuses]

Yeah... that's quite a bit of what I remember from the couple years in which I was an active congoer (though just as an attendee, not ever on the organizational side.) I did usually have some people I already knew and had a good time with, but it definitely never helped me find NEW people. I mean, geek social fallacies and such are a problem, like we've talked about before. People with bad boundaries and bad behaviors seem so magnified in con spaces.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I joined staff because I figured I'd be around the same people on a regular basis and that was a better way to find people I'd click with. I have made dumber decisions in my life, but I am having trouble thinking of any examples right now

[mistressofmuses]

That seems like the kind of thing that should pan out that way - particularly because I can understand the desire to get to know the people who are actually organizing things, rather than solely participating... but unfortunately it seems like that's often an even MORE toxic group of people. I'm sorry that the experience was such a shitty one.