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* Brothersong by TJ Klune- I love the Green Creek series overall, but this is not my favorite book in it. It wasn't a disappointment in any way, but I just like the other books a lot more. How much I love this series is weird because I don't click with some other stuff by TJ Klune. If I were to write out my problems with some of his books, I could use this series as a strong contrast to those books, an example of handling that stuff well. That these are by the same author, especially with the very striking writing style in this series, is something I haven't 100% wrapped my brain around.
The books have a very loose, poetic writing style. Sometimes when I read a book I wonder if I could have written something like that and maybe what I'd have done different/better. With Green Creek the answer is just no. The very strong plot structure contrasting prose that often ignores grammar, the sex scenes that play out in surprising ways and build on who the characters are and sometimes flesh out their backstories, my brain could never have produced something like this. With the writing style, I want to read it slower. I feel like I am not really taking it in if I am not giving it time.
I stand by my approach to grammar in writing, it's one of the few things I feel very solid on. My fragments and other quirks are not mistakes. But if I'm at about a 3 when it comes to bucking the strict rules of grammar to create feeling and meaning, he's at a hundred or more in this specific series. I love it, some people hate it with a burning passion and find it unreadable.
I love this series, but since the books really don't give us refreshes on the plot it'd be nifty if two very related characters didn't have similar names. I am not getting into who are or why it's a problem, but an easy way to boost the clarity of the books would have been to change one of those names.
We got a LOT of refreshes on Ox, who he is as a person, and his specific backstory. Maybe too often? I could have done with a few of those being cut. With Joe it's the opposite. We really don't see him for like hundreds of pages, then he cuts into a convo in a weird way and I'm like..... OH yeah, Joe's like that. The final book is Carter's POV and there is a convo towards the end that is a good refresh on Joe but during the series we go like 600 or more pages without something like that.
TJ Klune has a few short stories that are basically another character's POV on events, and it's mostly Elizabeth's POV. There is a bit of Joe in one of the stories and that helps, but it's still a bit weird that it feels like he's missing somehow from the center of the series.
Towards the end of the third book, it feels like certain things happening again is maybe weak writing, but the final book really sticks the landing. It also makes what happens towards the end of the third book feel very justified and solid in hindsight.
Also I think a LOT of authors could take some notes on the very chill, low key ways he handles diversity. It's so opposite of how I've seen diversity handled by some authors. I think some of the specific diversity he added was very important, because without it some people might feel like... it's not that they couldn't exist within the pack it's that they wouldn't thrive. He fills in certain worldbuilding holes that other writers just don't address.
* Boys Run The Riot - This was a mix of some very strong and relatable insight into trans experience, but also it's a 4 volume shonen manga so of course some things were going to play out as they did. I did start to read the first volume untranslated but switched to get them read for the read-a-thon. I will also finish the Japanese version because in Japanese it's easy to write without gendered pronouns and there are a few things where I am curious to see how it's handled. Anyway, I haven't read manga in a long time, but I used to read a lot and my brain just knew how a lot of things were going to play out. So, it felt like a lot of very raw stuff being put in a container that really didn't fit it.
The English version also comes with the debut one-chapter manga that is the basis for the series. It's not put into shonen magazine conventions so it's a strong contrast.
* Roger Crenshaw, the first two stories - They are probably about 7-8k words each. They read like very mid fanfiction. There are some consent issues there, mostly to keep the plot humming along. But, while there is some porn logic the trans guy isn't fetishized and just sort of exists. Honestly, I kind of wish I'd done this ten years ago, just put some mid, fanficcy stories out there and see how it goes. (Just with a little less porn logic)
I am trying to figure out a good way to say 'they are kinda crap, but I liked how the tranness was treated and also I wish I'd tossed crap like this up on itch.io like he did. I am jealous of this crap' There is a value to having projected completed and shipped rather than just dealing with everything in a state of potential.
The stories come with illustrations that are pretty good actually if you like the style. They are graphic both in that they are explicit but also the type of line work and shading is what's known as a graphic style. Two very different meanings of the word. I really like the art and it strikes a good balance between design and realism.
The books have a very loose, poetic writing style. Sometimes when I read a book I wonder if I could have written something like that and maybe what I'd have done different/better. With Green Creek the answer is just no. The very strong plot structure contrasting prose that often ignores grammar, the sex scenes that play out in surprising ways and build on who the characters are and sometimes flesh out their backstories, my brain could never have produced something like this. With the writing style, I want to read it slower. I feel like I am not really taking it in if I am not giving it time.
I stand by my approach to grammar in writing, it's one of the few things I feel very solid on. My fragments and other quirks are not mistakes. But if I'm at about a 3 when it comes to bucking the strict rules of grammar to create feeling and meaning, he's at a hundred or more in this specific series. I love it, some people hate it with a burning passion and find it unreadable.
I love this series, but since the books really don't give us refreshes on the plot it'd be nifty if two very related characters didn't have similar names. I am not getting into who are or why it's a problem, but an easy way to boost the clarity of the books would have been to change one of those names.
We got a LOT of refreshes on Ox, who he is as a person, and his specific backstory. Maybe too often? I could have done with a few of those being cut. With Joe it's the opposite. We really don't see him for like hundreds of pages, then he cuts into a convo in a weird way and I'm like..... OH yeah, Joe's like that. The final book is Carter's POV and there is a convo towards the end that is a good refresh on Joe but during the series we go like 600 or more pages without something like that.
TJ Klune has a few short stories that are basically another character's POV on events, and it's mostly Elizabeth's POV. There is a bit of Joe in one of the stories and that helps, but it's still a bit weird that it feels like he's missing somehow from the center of the series.
Towards the end of the third book, it feels like certain things happening again is maybe weak writing, but the final book really sticks the landing. It also makes what happens towards the end of the third book feel very justified and solid in hindsight.
Also I think a LOT of authors could take some notes on the very chill, low key ways he handles diversity. It's so opposite of how I've seen diversity handled by some authors. I think some of the specific diversity he added was very important, because without it some people might feel like... it's not that they couldn't exist within the pack it's that they wouldn't thrive. He fills in certain worldbuilding holes that other writers just don't address.
* Boys Run The Riot - This was a mix of some very strong and relatable insight into trans experience, but also it's a 4 volume shonen manga so of course some things were going to play out as they did. I did start to read the first volume untranslated but switched to get them read for the read-a-thon. I will also finish the Japanese version because in Japanese it's easy to write without gendered pronouns and there are a few things where I am curious to see how it's handled. Anyway, I haven't read manga in a long time, but I used to read a lot and my brain just knew how a lot of things were going to play out. So, it felt like a lot of very raw stuff being put in a container that really didn't fit it.
The English version also comes with the debut one-chapter manga that is the basis for the series. It's not put into shonen magazine conventions so it's a strong contrast.
* Roger Crenshaw, the first two stories - They are probably about 7-8k words each. They read like very mid fanfiction. There are some consent issues there, mostly to keep the plot humming along. But, while there is some porn logic the trans guy isn't fetishized and just sort of exists. Honestly, I kind of wish I'd done this ten years ago, just put some mid, fanficcy stories out there and see how it goes. (Just with a little less porn logic)
I am trying to figure out a good way to say 'they are kinda crap, but I liked how the tranness was treated and also I wish I'd tossed crap like this up on itch.io like he did. I am jealous of this crap' There is a value to having projected completed and shipped rather than just dealing with everything in a state of potential.
The stories come with illustrations that are pretty good actually if you like the style. They are graphic both in that they are explicit but also the type of line work and shading is what's known as a graphic style. Two very different meanings of the word. I really like the art and it strikes a good balance between design and realism.
no subject
Date: 2025-03-26 06:06 am (UTC)From:Sometimes I really do love things even if they are really a bit crap. It's so hard to sometimes explain that one well, because like... I *know* it's crap, but like... it's *my* crap, and I liked it. Sometimes thing are crap and I hate them. Sometimes things are crap and I enjoy them.
no subject
Date: 2025-03-28 01:23 am (UTC)From:If I had put out crap of that quality, I'd be a lot happier.
no subject
Date: 2025-03-28 04:04 am (UTC)From:I do also have In the Lives of Puppets, and it's on the TBR list. I haven't heard much of anything about that one, so unfortunate that it might be an iffy one. I've felt a little... not reluctant exactly to read it, but I've worried about that "diminishing returns" feeling. I loved Cerulean Sea the first time I read it, but feel like I was trying to force myself to enjoy Whispering Door, and never quite managed. The tone that felt comforting and whimsical initially started feeling more cloying, but that could very well be a problem with me instead of with the works.
I feel like there's also something to be said for getting crap that's tailored more to you as a reader. I can enjoy a whole range of quality across genres, but so much of the available crap is tailored to an audience that isn't me. Getting something that's just enjoyable trash (affectionate) and is clearly meant for you in a way most of the trash media out there *isn't*... That can be a nice feeling!
(But also same. It's a weird mix of inspiring and disappointing when you wish maybe you'd just gone all-in on some of the mediocre ideas that could have been that sort of fun nonsense.)
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Date: 2025-03-28 05:36 am (UTC)From:There are some themes in common, and maybe you wont find it as dramatically different as I do. Someday we'll see!
I like Green Creek enough that I want to at least try to read everything by him, and then I look at his bibliography and then I'm like... maybe not. It doesn't help that Amazon claims half his books came out in 2019. I suspect some of these are much older books that got re-issued when he became more established. I need a field guide to his bibliography
no subject
Date: 2025-03-29 04:38 am (UTC)From:So I'm excited about Green Creek! Because I do enjoy his style in a lot of ways, but I think the less... mmm... "sentimental"? tone might hit better for me, actually. Someday we will know!
I do seem to remember that a lot of his stuff was getting rereleased/released by bigger publishers/rereleased to new fanfare once he'd become popular. I think that included Wolfsong, but I could be misremembering. I'm not entirely sure what his whole bibliography looks like, and it's frustrating when it's not particularly clear to even find out! I'd probably have to have a pretty strong recc to want to give his YA stuff a go. I don't necessarily hate YA... but the YA stuff I've enjoyed feels like "YA by technicality" being used to market it, rather than the work actually suiting the broader category trends.
no subject
Date: 2025-03-30 03:28 am (UTC)From:Sometimes a lack of conflict just feels... odd? Like, I don't need conflict inside a group and think that's overdone. But, when it feels like problems dissolve rather than are solved, it's just off to me. I think a floaty sort of story can work, but it's got to be hitting the right notes.
Orignal pub dates and context would help a lot with navigating his work. A field guide would be great. I am very tempted to pick up Bones Beneath My Skin, but I kinda wanna know where the book falls first.
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Date: 2025-03-31 02:36 am (UTC)From:But yes, very much agreed! There's a lot of conflict that I don't enjoy - conflict for the sake of conflict that just doesn't seem to have a purpose bothers me. I have a fairly low threshold (not zero, but not high) for "big misunderstanding" conflict, unless it's really clear how and why the characters would come away with extremely different ideas about an event, but in those cases it can be really excellent. Horror movies are particularly egregious with making the characters have so much conflict with each other that it feels like all these characters who are supposedly in relationships or long-standing friendships actually hate each other, and I hate that shit.
But having some conflict that's part of the plot or the relationship arc or whatnot that just sort of... vanishes, or gets waved away with no real difficulty, or never gets a real solution feels weird and unsatisfying.
I'll have to look into more of his stuff. From a kind of meta perspective, I like when authors do seem to get that "second chance" with their bibliography. There's often so much pressure now on debut novels being the only chance for an author to do well, it's nice when something later in their career takes off and then it brings their back catalog to wider attention, because often there is a lot of good stuff there that just hadn't ever gotten the awareness that whatever later work did. Buuuuut sometimes that old stuff is also really rough, and it's fairly obvious why it didn't take off, ha.
If you do end up reading any more of his older stuff, I'll be interested to know what you think! Though I agree that a field guide would help.
no subject
Date: 2025-03-31 05:43 am (UTC)From:A - Manufactured, character breaking, 'required' conflict, often for dumb reasons
B - Asking for a gay book with romance and getting a category romance, and being told 'that's what romance is, if you don't like that you don't like romance' When what they wanted was a book with queer characters, and like in het books the guy always gets the girl... so that, but queer.
I don't know for sure, but I'd be 0% surprised if people being really hungry for those two things is a big driver of his current success. I think he's a great author, so I don't mean this in a shady way, but he also found a massive gap in the market without decent books.
The more I look at the careers of the people I am currently reading, the more I see that they just got stuff out there and grew bit by bit and got better along the way. I know the world has moved on from the old publish model where you needed to be perfect before even approaching publisher, lest mail form you be permanently redirected to the recycle bin, but that old feeling that you need a stunning debut or you're toast seems to have hung around more than it should. Now I just need to go build a time machine and tell past me that trying stuff wasn't going to make me doomed for eternity.
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Date: 2025-04-01 05:15 am (UTC)From:The whole "this is what romance is; stop asking for romance if you hate romance" thing especially feels pretty familiar. I have read romance novels that I do genuinely like, but yeah, sometimes it's more that I do want the hero to get his man or get her girl, but I still wanted the fun genre story to get there! Romantic b-plots are sometimes more compelling to me than the a-plots of a lot of capital-R Romance novels.
I know there's still a lot of pressure around debut novels being the make-it or break-it of an author's career, and it's possible that with some publishers that is still the case. I do wonder how much of that is true vs. the perception of the authors that are trying to hype and promote their work, and are just afraid that it's their only shot.
It is really encouraging to see that there are a lot of authors who meet with much better success later in their careers.
Though it really sucks that the perception that you've got one chance and one chance only to break into publishing has probably stifled a lot of people.
no subject
Date: 2025-04-01 07:04 pm (UTC)From:A lot of people are frustrated with looking for that stuff and just getting category romances in various hats.
Klune really hits some of what they are looking for. Not everything they are looking for, but some of it.
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Date: 2025-04-02 04:12 am (UTC)From:Getting that with queer characters really does feel like something of a novelty, and the sort of thing I'd wanted for a long time! I also like books that are *about* queer relationships, either in a more serious lit sense or a romance novel sense, but sometimes I want queer characters that get relationships but that also just get to be genre characters, y'know?
(I remember watching some very mediocre like... syfy original quality environmental disaster movie, and assuming the grad student main (a woman) would end up with the hot scientist (a man) that they encountered in the woods via him being hot and shirtless while... idk, getting water samples or something. And then the romantic subplot wound up being between him and her (male) classmate, and it played out identically to how that subplot normally goes. I was pretty blown away, haha.)
I think there's a lot of frustration around terminology. Romance-as-genre vs. romance-as-story-element get conflated a lot more than I wish they did. People want the latter and get frustrated by only getting suggestions for the former. Fans of the former get frustrated because they thought they were suggesting what was being asked for.
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Date: 2025-04-02 08:05 pm (UTC)From:Why the hell is trying to buy products so much freaking work when it comes to books? Wouldn't publishers want to fix that? Why is trying to even find TJ Klune in a bookstore such a chore because he could go in so many sections?
But yeah, a lot of people just want a break from how heteronormative culture can be or like gay people existing in more types of books
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Date: 2025-04-03 04:08 am (UTC)From:It really shouldn't be nearly as hard as it is! I realize that a lot of publishers really do want to throw their money into the "sure things", which means trends and reliable check-out-stand/airport-shop type books instead of "riskier" subgenres... but there are markets that are going untapped when people can't find the things they'd connect with.
And ugh, genre as marketing is such a mess. I hate shopping on Amazon because it's so impossible to browse in any meaningful way, but to be honest the last time I was in a Barnes and Noble it was *still* impossible to find what I was looking for, because like you said: there are so many different places that any given author or series could be shelved. Similar books by the same author might be all the way across the store from each other.
More variety of stories is almost always the answer, and it doesn't seem like it should be as difficult as it is to find.