(no subject)

[olivermoss]

I watched Millions of Dead Genders: A MOGAI Retrospective before I left on my trip and it's been going through my head a lot.

One thing the old tumblr approach did to identity was just make millions of them and assign them to people when they were at their starting points. Saying to someone who is just starting to explore identity that 'you feel x, here is your label, your flag, you are valid and don't tolerate people questioning that' kind of freezes people where they are. This video really clarified for me some of the ways I found 2010s tumblr, allegedly such a thriving center of LBGTIA+ community, baffling and aggro. As the video said, it's a very 'incurious' way to approach identity.

It's also not good for community building to atomize identity that much. Also, her ending points about the internet in general are very good. Anyway, it's a really good video on online queer community.

Comments

[mistressofmuses]

I'll have to give it a watch!

I feel like some of the anger about the word "queer" itself comes from that "incurious" perspective.

My personal relationship with sexuality and gender are pretty fluid and changing. I HAVE multiple labels I connect with, and I appreciate that I have them... but also find that the queer perspective specifically comes from the idea of NOT fitting into comfortable boxes, of existing in some liminal areas and being okay with that. Trying to micro-label everything, just so that we have a tidy box with no complications or contradictions to mess it up seems... very counter to my own experiences and desires.

I don't BEGRUDGE people having micro-labels, because I am happy for anything that does make someone comfortable and give them a sense of belonging. If it helps someone put words to what they feel, I'm happy for them.
I do however begrudge the idea that everyone should find or create labels that describe every aspect of themselves perfectly, and that every stranger out there is somehow entitled to know those labels. That gets toxic very fast, and doesn't allow for genuine self-exploration or the freedom to change how you identify. And fracturing a broader community into smaller and smaller bits is definitely damaging to that community as a whole.

It's kind of like the parable about making a perfectly accurate map by making it completely 1:1 with the area that it's mapping. In order to get that perfect level of accuracy, it becomes useless as a map.
It feels like this is somehow similar: finding ways to label every aspect of yourself until you wind up with a mix of labels that is totally descriptive of you as an individual... is probably going to be so specific to you that it's no longer functional as a community label.

[olivermoss]

If someone tells me they have an identity I've never heard of it doesn't bother me. I don't need to understand other people's identities, just respect them. But such fine demarcations are very limiting. Imagine have to change identities just because you changed a little or realized something? If I'd had a micro-identity back in the day I would have felt a lot of pressure to stay in it.

Her look at the whole thing and how rarely some of these IDs were even used is interesting. Though, I do wish MOGAI had become the default acronym because I have spent so much of my life dealing with drama over LGBT or LGBTQ or LGBTQIA+ or ... The local group I used to be in here wound up having a long group discussion to perfect the acronym and it wound up with 14 letters and 2 numbers. By the time that whole process was done the group was so worn out and stressed it fell apart.

[mistressofmuses]

Agreed - I would absolutely have struggled with feeling like I couldn't leave my box, if it was a box that was so specific to me. So many people I know have spent decades figuring out who they are, and sometimes changing labels as something new happens in their lives... removing the freedom to explore your own identity and self is a sad thing, I think.

When I was in high school, I *always* heard GLBT, and then suddenly that was a HORRIBLE order for the acronym, and meant all kinds of awful things about you if you said it. And then LGBT seemed standard, and then it felt kind of like everyone had a different feeling on which letters should be included, and which ones shouldn't, and which ones you were making exclusionary statements about if you didn't include... Oof.

I can absolutely believe that a group would fall apart over just figuring out what acronym to use.

I'm an emphatic inclusionist, so I genuinely hate the idea of anyone feeling left out or ignored... but also, umbrella and broader community terms have to exist at some point, or it will be genuinely impossible to include everyone who deserves to be.

[olivermoss]

Words cannot express how might I hate fighting over the acronym and the divisions it's caused in spaces I've been a part of. I've also seen it derail solidarity after tragedy because people are suddenly fighting over the acronym.

[mistressofmuses]

Hard same. Fights over terminology are SO derailing, and such a ridiculous thing for groups to get embroiled in, and yet it happens so often.

[muccamukk]

I used to find the micro identity thing so twee and annoying, for some of the reasons the vlogger states, and just because it was so bouncy and scattered and I was just like "lesbian is fine, you know." But then I ran into the transmeds and terfs and sort of felt a lot of sympathy with the "you know what? Let's formulate 3000 more genders just to piss them off! side of things. The fighting over which made up micro identity that no one used was valid bit was kinda a drag tho.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, it's complicated because clearly they felt a need to make all these micro-identities, but it also make people feel weirdly cut off from like seeing themselves as a lesbian or feeling okay about joining lesbian groups.

If someone tells me they identify as some gender I've never heard of, it doesn't really matter to me because I don't need to understand other people's identities, just respect them.

The one thing I did like about MOGAI is that it sidesteps the whole LGBTQ, LGBT+, LGBTIA+ or LGBTTIAAQ2.... I forget what acronym the local group I was in wound up with but it has 14 letters and 2 numbers. Sorting all that out stressed everyone out so much the group fell apart right after adopting it.

[muccamukk]

I feel like Canada settled on LGBTQ2S, and everyone else can be a +, which isn't especially fair, but you gotta stop somewhere. It's better than QILTBAG. MOGAI (which I'd never heard of pre-video) sounds like something from 1950s SFF.

[olivermoss]

MOGAI does sound weird, but it sidesteps the problem I've been either dealing with or see shred communities into endless debates for pretty much my whole life. Unfortunately, the term has some weird associations so I can't actually use it without people making weird assumptions about me. I tend to just default to Queer whenever possible.