Tolkien Estate says I have to stop writing Gimli/Legolas....

[olivermoss]

The new FAQ from the Tolkien Estate. The stupid words are actually images so I can't copy/paste them! Anyway, under the fanfic part is says I cannot create stuff that references characters, places, etc. Until a few days ago it apparently directly said 'no fanfiction'. That's adorable, and also against JRRT's wishes.

If anyone organizes an event to thumb their nose at this, lemme know? I will kick one of my ancient wips into shape for it.

I am usually sympathetic to the Tolkien Estate because the WB films made no money on paper and they were in bankruptcy for a long time. People keep assuming they are rolling in the money, but it took like 2 decades of work to keep estate assets from being liquidated and having Tolkien's desk and pipe sold to private collectors. But this is dumb and... super dumb.

Comments

[rekishi]

Shouldn't they have learned from all the 'adoration' that Anne Rice earned for her cease and desist letters?

ETA: They'll be so annoyed by my Finrod/basically everyone fic I'm currently editing.

[olivermoss]

If they actually take action that will be interesting. They are also claiming that you can use any of Tolkien's languages, every word is under their copyright. Do you know how many video games use mithril?

The whole FAQ is an unenforceable mess.

[rekishi]

I can do you one better: Mithril Capital? Palantir Technologies?

[olivermoss]

Yeah, they've got a mess on their hands if they actually believe their own FAQ

[muccamukk]

I think we can make a case that the website is such an accessibility nightmare that they didn't actually say anything at all.

[olivermoss]

That is true, they couldn't bother even having the text be text.

[muccamukk]

From the bottom post here, it sounds like they do this all the time, and it's just a website redesign thing.

https://dawnfelagund.tumblr.com/post/677991708172140544/is-the-tolkien-estate-crazy

[olivermoss]

The rights are likely being re-litigated again soon. WB might have lost part of their grasp by not remaking LOTR already. That's probably why they redid the website and likely tweaked some wording.

I am not alarmed, more amused. They are trying to close barn doors decades after the cows got out. If it came to a lawsuit I'd put money on 'mithril' already qualifying for genericide. Also, after all these decades, some things are going to start becoming public domain in about 11 years.

[muccamukk]

I guess? I mean, if it hasn't really changed, it's not something new they're saying. These are the same barn doors that have always been closed long after we've dug under the fence.

[olivermoss]

I could be wrong, but from the chatter I've heard they did tweak their wording a few times with their re-design. They are probably revisiting things because of the upcoming Amazon v WB fights over who gets to do what with Tolkien licensing. So, I see this as a doubling down on overly-broad guidelines that are more likely to have fans annoyed with them than sympathetic.

[highlyeccentric]

Didn't they always say you couldn't write using the character set (I believe you could reference them, but named characters weren't to appear in one's fanfic)?

[olivermoss]

I don't know what the old FAQ said. This is just going around because they redid the website and according to a bunch of sources it literally said 'no fanfic, no fanzines' etc. at first.

[writedragon]

It also shows a complete lack of understanding of how fandom works, and that things like fic are part of the engine that drives fandom and keeps a given fandom viable.

[olivermoss]

It also shows a complete lack of knowledge of what is actually legal.

In 11 years the first version of The Hobbit, and all that artwork, is public domain in the US. That will be an interesting Public Domain Day

[shipperslist]

Oh for fuck's sake.

[mistressofmuses]

This is extra super mega dumb.

AND so extraordinarily counter to the attitude JRRT seemed to have, though I'm certainly no expert.

The idea that no one may even reference the characters or locations of the work, may not utilize any of the languages of his work (unless like... in secret and never shared), can't use his name... The bits about quoting from his works even implies that they expect academic articles to ask for permission to cite, lol.

A blanket "fuck you, you can't name a garden after him", lol.

I am sympathetic to the fact that Tolkien's works have such an enormous cultural footprint, and yet they've struggled so badly financially. That is really cruddy. But... doing their best to alienate that broad fanbase and quash any of the extremely long-running, energetic, deeply passionate fandom... doesn't seem like the way to address that.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, it strikes me as deeply clueless. People are less likely respect such out-of-touch and overly broad guidelines than if they put out something more reasonable. They might do better to just not mention fanfic at all.

[mistressofmuses]

Right? Maybe make at least... some attempt to not come across as utter assholes? Because you're right - stuff like this is way more likely to get a "psssh, whatever" *middle finger* reaction than something that's a lot more measured and reasonable. (And yeah, definitely getting a pretty collectively massive middle finger at this point haha.)

It still seems like they could do more to work with the fandom - again, a famously passionate fandom - to improve and strengthen the legacy of the estate rather than what they have done. I mean, I really am not an expert by any stretch, and I'm sure they've dealt with and been burned by more than their fair share of beyond-obsessive fans, but... this still seems like the wrong tack to take.