TLOU2

[olivermoss]

Yeah, so all the people saying 'All the show fans, if only they knew what happens in 2! They'd regret their takes', they were all wrong. Honestly, everything about 2 reinforces my confusion that people see this as a simple trolley problem. The Fireflies have been pushed from Boston all the way past Utah Salt Lake City, but they didn't have some big west coast strong hold either. Assuming a vaccine was possible and they could do it, them having the vaccine would have turned out terribly.

Joel acted out of emotion, not logic, but he made the right choice. He should have lied better and differently to Ellie, but he did the right thing in that moment.

I think TLOU2 does a better job at setting up debatable moral questions. My view on who one of the 'real villains' is my opinion. But I can see people having other opinions. People who see TLOU as a straightforward trolley problem, I don't even know how to have a conversation with them. But, again, I might feel differently if I played the game. In the show it 100% is not a trolley problem, even if that is what they were trying to set up. If the first medical center was still Firefly central, sure. If the Fireflies did have a gleaming stronghold out west, sure. They couldn't even keep the power on in that one fallback center.

I think Tommy is one of the real villains. Despite all the love, care, the lengths Joel went to for him, lucking into an amazing place to live and finding love... the man can't pull his head out of his own ass. He walks in the triggers every one of Ellie's issues in the late game. He killed any chance she had at being okay. He doesn't even see it. Joel would not want him to do that. Joel would have been furious. Tommy just cannot pull his head out of his own ass. Also, if he had any capacity for empathy and reflection he'd have stopped partway to Seattle to see if Ellie was on his trail and they would have moved forward together. He cannot consider any needs but his own.

Tommy is what happens when someone always has people to clean up his messes, bail him out, look after him and just fails to grow up.

I found Abbey's storyline interesting but I don't see it as Joel parallel. She didn't kill Joel, she slowly beat him to death. She wasn't stuck with a kid, she basically grabs onto a pair because she's lost herself and she's openly using them, then just Lev, to reconnect with humanity. It's calculated. She even says it. Abbey is Joel's foil, his contrast, not his 'ironically has the same story' character.

Also, the Scars v Wolves conflict reinforces why the Fireflies having a vaccine is not the way out of this mess. The infected are not the biggest problem, it's sad little fiefdom and people clinging to power and vengeance cycles out of control. Everyone but Dina is responsible for some escalation, but Abby the most of the main characters.

Anyway, tl:dr - maybe if my intro to the canon was the first game, I'd get why people see this as a basic trolley problem. But, as a show fan... no.