(no subject)

[olivermoss]

* I feel like DW could really use a comm for people posting links to reviews on their journals. Black Mirror just came out and various DWers can't talk about it much because we are all separate. Starting a Black Mirror comm and promoting it, starting a comm for each little flash in a pan canon that comes along, would be tiring and people wouldn't bother joining many. But a catch-all place for people to post links to their reviews would be really useful and maybe make this a good place for chatting media again.

But, I have done enough 'build it and see if they come'. I am burnt out. There are comms I had lots of people begging me to start once I proposed them and then... I was suddenly talking to myself.

If someone were to start some sort of WidthersReview type comm I would suggest having a soft 'one post per week' rule. When the Tumblr porn ban thing happened, some of the revitalized comms got spammed hard by people trying to grab clout on this site and wound up killing the momentum. People just left the comms. Comms need clear posting rules and mods do need to handle people spamming hard. I had an ongoing problem with some of my comms, but also other comms had the problem worse because the mods weren't taking action. I actually watched as a few promising comms started to shed members because people were put off by the spamming.

Anyway, the rule should have exceptions for canons suddenly blowing up, or if a new canon has some unexpected possibly triggery content or a few other reasons. So, generally if people post multiple reviews in a week they would post a links round up instead of posting for each, but also allow people to break it for a list of reasons.

It's just not possible to sustain comms for all the canons out there, so we wind up posting and our flisties either are or aren't into it. But we've got that, FFA and a few comms like the general C-Ent com. Just having a space where a person could go 'I read X book, watched this week's episode of Y show and saw the new Z movie' and allow us to chat across the site just with whoever saw the same movie or read the same book, would be great and would solve the problem of the userbase being too small to sustain comms for individual canons.

I'm lucky that I do typically get some comments to my reviews posts, but I'd also love to read a lot more by other people.

* With the current stuff going on I should find content for my current comms but omg I feel like I am stuck in a time loop.

* Oh hey, Linda Hamilton is going to be on the final season of Stranger Things. Excellent get. That was aaalll today's Tudum event had for Stranger Things and chat was not happy about it. (Tudum is Netflix's big 'announce things and give sneak peaks' event.)

Comments

[muccamukk]

I used to use site search to find people talking about my shows, back when I was into shows other people talked about it. It worked some of the time.

I simultaneously miss newsletters, and would never ever run one again.

[olivermoss]

I've found that visiting people's journals randomly isn't always welcome. I enjoy it when people pop up in mine, but some of my popping into others was not great.

[muccamukk]

Yeah, it was admittedly a bit of a dance. You sort of had to do the friend shuffle sometimes, which does mean that I have people to this day I met in whatever fandom, but sometimes you just want to yell about the thing, not find about someone's dog, so...

[olivermoss]

Yeah, that's always been a problem on DW with the lack of comms. No space to just mingle, no middle grounds. It's sort of all or nothing. That also makes it very hard for people to get set up here.

[muccamukk]

That's very true. I've been sort of toying with the idea of taking this one on, but don't want to do all the set up, lol.

[bluedreaming]

Another option might be to put a post on fictional_fans and ask people to link to reviews in the comments? (With the title of the comment being the name of the show or book or something like that.) And if people showed interest, maybe someone else would want to create a comm, or maybe it could be a monthly post on the fictional-fans comm (I don’t think that would be spamming).

Just checked and there is a review tag.

[olivermoss]

I appreciate that, but that doesn't really have the vibe I am looking for. Hosting posts on canons would create an expectation that I interact with everyone who comments. I am looking for a different flow to how the social interactions would work.

[bluedreaming]

Totally understandable! Well, maybe someone down the line will be interested in creating a comm (someone did for the kpop one I wanted, so there’s always hope).

[mistressofmuses]

A space to do media roundup type stuff like that would be cool! I intermittently talk about stuff I watched or things I read and the like, but that's exactly it - it's mostly for my own reference, because it's usually not the same stuff my flist is into! And I see a lot of media posts from friends that are talking about shows I don't watch, etc.

I wish I felt like I *could* go through promoting and modding a space like that, because I think it would be very useful.

And boy am I with you in wanting some better crit out there for the finding, lol. If I see one more churned out clickbait "this is the real problem with S6 of Black Mirror..." just for it to be a list of "OMG CONTINUITY MISTAKES" because there was an easter egg reference that "breaks" the timeline or whatever... (Okay, I only saw two of those, and they were both shoved at me without looking But still.)

Linda Hamilton! Great get!

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I post also just to think about the media and (sometimes) be able to look back on my own reactions. If people interact, bonus!

Ugh, I hate plot hole, continuity breaks and endings explained type stuff. The overall state of media crit online is a joke compared to what it was. I tried looking for some stuff on Stranger Things before season 4 was out and for even the highly recced podcasts it was like they hadn't even watched the show recently.

[mistressofmuses]

Same. I like getting to look back and see what I thought of things. My memory for the specifics of a work isn't always excellent, but looking back at what I thought at the time brings back a lot. And I do enjoy the act of writing out my thoughts and feelings about something, especially if I did feel strongly about it. It's nice to try and solidify my thoughts and analysis such as it is.

Right? I loathe that that seems to be the be-all end-all of "media criticism". I mean, I know it's clickbait and clickbait exists for a reason, and that shit must be successful. But it's the woooorst.
I also feel like it's hard to get people to take media crit seriously... people want listicle type things, or quick and vehement videos. Things have to be the BEST THING or the WORST THING EVAR, and looking at them in a more nuanced way or like it could be a mix of good and bad is treated as... boring. You have to either aim for the superfans who will hear no negative, or the haters who want to hear you tear something apart.

[olivermoss]

I kinda wish I'd blogged more about Stranger Things season 4 as I watched it.

Also, writing out my thoughts means I've got things to say if the change comes up, and I just like media crit and reviews and stuff. The things that were so big on the older version of the internet, now it's all 'here is fodder to troll people who dare to like things'

[mistressofmuses]

I have a few of those sorts of things, too. I wish I'd written reviews or even just reactions down for favorite shows or books or things. I know what stuck with me long-term, but don't necessarily remember exactly what I thought at the time. And especially for something like a series or a longer book, I want to know what impressions I had, or things I thought were going to happen as it went, which I often forget after we see what *does* happen.

And exactly! I do just in general enjoy media crit and reviews. My younger sibling writes super in-depth book reviews sometimes, and I tend to really enjoy when they do, even if we felt differently about the book in question. I used to love writing movie reviews, but I have the time and energy so sporadically now...

But yes, that's definitely something I strongly miss from The Old Web. It's not that meta doesn't still exist, because it does, but at least the stuff I come across feels... not often like what I'm looking for. Not in-depth, or structured solely to support a thesis (while throwing out anything contrary), which is *fine*, but not the kind of review and crit I'm looking for.
You're right - so much now is just about almost trying to punish people for liking something. It's that same... resistance to sincerity that I think we've talked about before. It feels like admitting to *liking* something is admitting weakness, and just inviting people to tell you how you're wrong for it. People have to make sure to tear the thing down in advance so no one else beats them to it.

[olivermoss]

Also, we write. Breaking down the stories we watch is useful! Or maybe at least satisfying? Maybe my 'actually writing' versus 'breaking down media' ratio is way off

[mistressofmuses]

I think it's both! I know that I get a lot out of analyzing how a story fits together, whether I ultimately think it was good or bad. If there's something I think was built up satisfyingly, I want to know *how* it was set up. If there's a moment that just hit all the right notes for me, and made a big impact... how and why did it do that? If there's something I didn't like, then what made me feel that way? Did I just not care for the direction it took, or was there something in that part that undercut a theme I'd been enjoying up until that point?
Even just the more technical aspects of "this was a really clear, concise explanation of a setting" or "wow, the pacing through here was excellent" or "ugh, this dialogue was so hard to follow" can help me think about how I want to do (or not do) things in my own work.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, precisely, it's fun to break down how it all works and also figure out how to fix some of the problems. Or at least, what seems to me to be a problem.

[mistressofmuses]

I actually really enjoy looking at ways I think something could be improved. And sometimes identifying those sorts of things helps me prevent issues in my own stuff. Like, if I recognize how much I dislike when it feels like a character's arc gets undercut by the way a scene plays out, then I'm a lot more cognizant of making sure I don't do the same thing. If I get one of those *really good* plot twists where I'm surprised but ALSO see exactly how everything was set up, then I'm better at knowing how to lay clues and divert suspicion when it comes to my own work. Etc, lol.

[olivermoss]

So do I, especially since sometimes those flaws are to make it fit expectations or catering to a very broad mainstream audience instead of staying true to things. It's also good in general to dissect media instead of just accept it. Meta is one response and fic is another.

Really good plot twists and well written stories are also good to take close looks at to enjoy well made art.

[mistressofmuses]

Yes!! There are a lot of things that feel like they cave to a desire to be or appeal to the mainstream, or decide they don't trust the audience to follow, and then simplify themselves and lose a lot of strength.
And for real. I think that dissecting media, really digging into the themes behind it and the craft of it and whether it met its aims or not... all of that is a GOOD thing! I think that's why the sorry state of media crit makes me sad. Actively participating in and thinking about your media is good! Passively consuming has its place, fine, but shouldn't be the only way you interact with anything ever.

And yes. I feel like I learn a lot, and gain a better understanding and appreciation for things every time I really delve into looking at them, whether I ultimately think the thing I'm examining was good or bad.

[olivermoss]

Good crit is doubly hard to find, or even do, when it's positive. If you can harsh on something in an amusing way you will find at least some audience.

[mistressofmuses]

Very true! Dunking on something that sucks is comparatively easy, where trying to be thoughtful and also reasonably entertaining about something that's *good* is a lot harder. I think it also leads to a lot of those extremes - something being THE WORST EVER or OMG THE BEST THING EVER CREATED EVAR is a lot easier to talk about than something that's... just good or just okay or kind of mixed.

[olivermoss]

It's weird how we live in an era where media criticism is either terrible and more designed to give people talking points to be smug at social events, or 2 hour fully produced, professionally edited movies with graphics, jokes and at this point even running gags that deep dive into the media and the context of when it was made and when it came out

[mistressofmuses]

That's true! It's either shitty listicles and crapass "cinema-sins" type "gotchas", or like, Defunctland-type documentaries.
And I LOVE those two-hour professionally-edited films-about-films, don't get me wrong, but sometimes I'd settle for a decently written review by someone who actually watched and put some thought into the thing.

[colls]

If you know anyone interested in adopting tv_talk, it's free to a good home. The original mod has left DW and I somehow was left as the only admin (LOL). What you're describing was the premise of the community.

[olivermoss]

Ooh, that looks cool and I should subscribe just in case.

[shipperslist]

Linda Hamilton is going to be on the final season of Stranger Things.

*GASPS* I approve of this soooo much!

[olivermoss]

I am so excited!