(no subject)

[olivermoss]

* I've seen some GO metas drift past my dashboard and I kind of want to ramble about what these posts don't understand, especially about what the second coming means, but also I just don't want to wade in. I once read a book and then many years later other people had read the book and then there was a fandom and... the fandom has always baffled me at best. And I avoid Pratchett fandom so much I sometimes act like I haven't read the Discworld books. I have had very weird experiences with what Pratchett fandom has become.

* Looks like we are getting 100-110 degree weather, but it should drop to 70s overnight and there is a big difference between that and not that.

* The fucking self-check out machine at the grocery story accused me of stealing food. Guess I'll make people check me out from now on. If I was going to steal from the grocery store I wouldn't do it by pocketing items during check out.

* Still in Baldur's Gate 3 act 1. This is where I live now.

Comments

[princessofgeeks]

I am not part of Pratchett fandom but have read a lot of his books and am curious about what Pratchett fandom has become?

And I guess we really are in a post-Christian world if English-speaking fandom doesn't know what the Second Coming is?

[olivermoss]

They get that it's Jesus coming back, but not that it's part of the whole angel's plan to try again at ending the world. I wouldn't say we are in a post-christian world but a lot of people... there is a lot to christianity and a lot of people treat it as a buffet. They take what they want and ignore the rest, including the history or knowing what other people calling themselves christians are up to.

The parts of Pratchett fandom I've dealt with are very intense and going against The Agreed Upon Takes As Decided By Fandom is taken as a personal insult by some. I've had people tear into me for calling his book satirical or humorous, because that means I don't see the depth and the philosophy. Because satire and morality/depth are mutually exclusive? There are no famous examples of using satire to make a point? I wrote papers on his books in college talking about how he used the format to convey meaning. Back then, the idea that anything genre had any depth was seen as dumb and I was actually planning on doing an honors project about that but too many people tried to do senior honors projects that year and the advisors got to pick and choose. Any other year I could have done it, but bad timing.

But yeah, I'd had people melt down at me for calling the books humor, there is nothing funny about them! I guess for some people these books was how things like class privilege finally clicked for them and are defensive in weird ways.

[princessofgeeks]

Re Pratchett fandom: Wow, that's harsh. The humor in the Discworld books is some of the best part! I guess this mostly plays out on Tumblr? I am pretty out of touch.

Sorry you had to run into that buzz saw.

[olivermoss]

I assume it formed on tumblr, but I can avoid it there. It's when I am in discords or comms for other fandoms and we talk what books we read that I've run into the buzzsaw. I just never Discworld anymore.

[princessofgeeks]

Oh yes Discord! My kids use that and I know of it, but have not tried to explore.

Again, I'm sorry that the book fandom is full of these obstinate people. Way to suck all the fun out of fandom!!!!

[olivermoss]

I like discord overall, it's just where those sorts of convos happen.

Yeah, fandoms are strange places sometimes

[muccamukk]

I'm having that reaction to Good Omens just from reading people's exchange letters. The level of "wow, y'all watched a different show" is slightly stunning. Also, tell me you're not Christian and never have been without telling me etc.

[olivermoss]

Fanon is great, but there needs to be an awareness that it is fanon. But, that is a problem in a lot of fandoms.

I get that a lot of people get weird osmosis of what Christianity even is, sometimes from their own churches, but hasn't anyone made a guide specifically for GO fans?

[muccamukk]

The number of people furious at season two for not matching the version that happened in their heads is really doing my head in. Three-year summers suck.

I'm a peace peace love love low protestant and even we talked about different interpretations of Revelation!

*wanders off muttering*

[olivermoss]

Long hiatuses are recipes for fandom wank.

I was raised with 'the bible was written by people, ignore anything you don't vibe with', but I still knew about those parts. Then I got sent to catholic school...

The GW2 character I use the most in group content - not my main but he's the one I use for playing with others - is named Apocryphell and I've had to explain so often that apocalypse and apocryphal are related words but with very different meanings. Then if they have me explain they can't follow. Or they think it's a Matrix reference to the character Apoc, but he's 'Phell for short not Apoc.

[princessofgeeks]

Yeah, people get incredibly invested into their own version of what they saw.

It really is true that we can be watching very different shows!

[olivermoss]

I get getting invested, and I don't think fanon is necessarily a bad thing... but when people get lost in the sauce it just leads to drama and people using terms they really shouldn't

[mistressofmuses]

Pratchett fandom has awkwardly put me off from reading Discworld. Taylor just started reading them, and I know I SHOULD and that I'll enjoy them when I do, but... it's gotten weird.

I like at least some of the GO meta I've seen, often just from a "poke it like a bug" standpoint, but I don't find a lot of it CONVINCING. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to think that a piece of meta they like is DEFINITELY 100% EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND WHAT IT MEANS and then get weird about disagreement.

[olivermoss]

I loved Pratchett for ages but haven't reread anything in at least a decade. He's amazing, but man, his fandom weird super weird. People become so weirdly hyper defensive of what they personally got out of his books. And sometimes it's literally 'trickle down theory doesn't work' and I'm glad they realized that but... this isn't the mystical key to the universe they think it is.

People are so intense about their GO metas. It's not 'here is a theory' it's very I ALONE HAVE CRACKED THE CODE AND ASCENDED

[mistressofmuses]

I mean, Good Omens was a favorite of mine since I first read it in high school (somehow never having had it hyped to me, instead having only vaguely heard the author names and picking it up used for a couple bucks at a used book store.) I very quickly learned about Discworld, and I started grabbing occasional ones when I did see them in thrift stores or the like, but never got around to reading them. (Though I've read most of Gaiman's stuff at various points.)

I do love that people get a lot of things from the books, and I love that the books evidently incorporate a lot of different philosophies and social commentaries and such... but people seem to get weird about acting like they're the only books that do so or the only way that anyone could have discovered those concepts? Idk, I'm not like, mad that there's a fandom or anything, but it makes it feel weird to try and get into the books because they're placed on such a specific pedestal.

Lmao, that is 100% the vibe with the GO meta. I HAVE CRACKED THIS CODE, IT'S RIGHT HERE IN THE OPEN YET ONLY I HAVE UNLOCKED THE TRUUUUUUTH. It feels like the weird borderline conspiracy stuff that some other fandoms have been infamous for. I guess I've just mostly seen that stuff from afar, and it feels weird to see people be so ADAMANT about what's at best (to me) an interesting theory or cool "what if" idea from a bit closer.

[olivermoss]

I was into both Gaiman and Pratchett, and weirdly for a long time fans of either hated GO. Pratchett fans tended to hate the edge Gaiman brought and Gaiman fans didn't like the Pratchett flavor. Mentioning the book used to be insta-drama because for the longest time most fans just would not touch it. Took ages for it to find it's audience.

I try to be a little forgiving because I had an good education even early on, not a super biases in one way education. And I am a big believer in stories to talk about certain concepts, which actually comes from my love of Jorge Luis Borges who I'd use as an essay subject whenever I could get away with it. Borges was either very formative to who I am, or helped me articulate it. Somewhere in there. But yeah, people act like they alone know that classism bad because they read that one Pratchett book where Vimes talks about boots. It's like it's the one true way to understand a lot of things and no one ever understood that rich people actually pay less for a lot of things before that. It's an almost religious sort of One Way and The Truth type obsession with way too many people. And yeah, it's like they don't get that people might understand these ideas from any other source.

[mistressofmuses]

I remember there was some weird animosity toward GO from both sets of fans. (Though I think I read it after the book had been enshrined as THE favorite of geeks everywhere... I just had missed out on anyone telling me that until afterwards, ha.) But I do remember that it had a pretty long stretch of being roundly disliked and poorly reviewed and such. I'm glad it DID find its audience, though. Now I guess it's sort-of drama to talk about again, because now it's cliche to like it and "everyone knows" it's overrated or whatever.

And yeah. I genuinely love that hey, these concepts are brought up in these books in a way that isn't forced, and is also understandable and digestible and provides a great explanation and example! The Vimes boots theory is a great way to explain ways in which it costs more to be poor! Pratchett deserves recognition for writing it well... not for inventing the concept.
The series has gone through this almost... deification process, which makes me wary of wading into it, even though I know I'll love it when I eventually do! (And of course, my standard is to largely ignore whatever is going on with wider fandom, so I shouldn't be too worried, haha.)

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I love Pratchett but I don't mention it on tumblr or on discords. Pterry who?