Overdue Fanfic Trelloing

[olivermoss]

I keep putting this post off thinking I'll get some writing done instead, but then don't really make progress. Rambling here a bit would probably help more. So, here goes...

* Steddie - What The Storm Brought In. Steve and Eddie wind up stuck in 80s Portland for the weekend. Very self indulgent and I watched some old, low quality videos on the 24 Hour Church of Elvis to get the deets right. But, while this is a fic about 80s Portland in general, it was born out of a thought in my head that the longevity of Darcelle's Club was already remarkable in the 80s, and I kind of want to write that to help like process the size of it all. I am focusing on writing the fic first, and then I'll decide whether to post it or not.

I don't think there is anything wrong with including Darcelle in the fic, she is part of this city's history. But I don't typically touch anything involving real people, especially not real people who I've talked to.

I did my usual 'how would I feel if someone else wrote this fic' though exercise. If someone else wrote a well researched 80s fic that has a Darcelle cameo, and it was based on the author having first hand experiences and knowing a lot of first hand stories, I'd be keenly interested. Maybe a little overly critical of the writing, but I don't think it's in concept wrong. But this is so out of my wheel house that I'm worried there is something I haven't considered?

Anyway, plan is to finish writing the thing, and then I'll decide whether to post.

I have also researched Indiana gay bars because I don't want to just assume the history of the area they are coming from, and there is actually a very old bar in Muncie! Two barriers they'd run into in that scene is gay bars not being publicly known and also the bars that would let Steve in wouldn't let Eddie in and vice versa. And also in some of the old Indiana 'gay bars' people weren't allowed to hold hands and it sounds more like a straight bar that allowed a few gays as long as they pretended to not be gay.

The only thing I am fudging is that I am moving Spartacus's [iconic Portland leather shop] relocation from Sandy to the main street of our downtown area, very close to one of our biggest tourists attractions forward by a few months. Mentally, I've set this in fall '86 and they moved in early '87, but I am ruling that in the Stranger Things Universe they were inspired to move a few months sooner. Giant BSDM displays so close to Powell's City of Books is just such a core Portland experience. I don't know if this is still true, but at the time it was against our zoning to restrict were certain types of stores could go to avoid creating those sketchy little crime and trafficking corridors other cities get, so Portland has sex shops front and center on some of our most popular streets and even 'private lingerie modelling' in some very nice area near bars popular with tourists.

When I moved to Portland, I moved to from area that did restrict sex shops and created little sketch distracts. If you wanted to buy a *gasp* vibrator *gasp* you had to go to a high crime area and sometimes the guy at the counter was high AF and would try to very openly sell you crack or heroin. So, being able to buy leather restraints or porn in a safe part of town was kind of a big deal, especially before online shopping.

Also I just consider 'woah giant bookstore... wait what is mannequin doing to other mannequin?' to just be a core part of Portland's unique flavor.

So, yeah, need to finish the fic and then I will probably post it. I am just worried that after I post it someone will be 'but what about [thing that didn't occur to me]'



* My longer trans fic will take a while to write. I do want to write some more short fics in the meantime, just sort of chasing my tail about 'what would I want to see in such a fic?'



When I go looking for NSFW art I keep seeing chatter obsessing over FTM Eddie that is all

oh look it's a spoiler cut within an LJ cut... yeah these words are something

people thirsty to see Eddie 'cuntbusted' until 'her pussy is pointed'. I am not sure what is meant by 'pointed'? I can guess, but it's very Not How Things Work. The more I see that the more I want to write stuff that isn't that? FTM fic that isn't 'fave gets PIV marathon'.

I can think of some long, complicated things to write but my brain can't figure out something manageable to just get done.


* I want to write something involving Dustin finding out or Steve coming out to Dustin, but I keep writing stuff and discarding it.

* I still need to go back and edit that Librarians fic.

If this all sounds like a disorganized mess, it is. My brain is having 'what do I want this story to be' problems. I've written a lot, just as practice, but stuff rambling... stuff. I really wanted to post with the 80s fic or the coming out fic in June, but that obviously didn't happen. Maybe having rambled about it will shake something loose.

Or maybe I'll watch Nimona for a third time? Nope, nope, going to figure this shit out and get something done.

Comments

[muccamukk]

I don't do Stranger Things, but that take on FTM fic is admittedly not my favourite either. I'm sure trans fic that is Not That would be appreciated by many.

Watch Nimona a third time!

[olivermoss]

I do have two fics done on a separate account I have for trans fic. I'd just really like to grow that some.

Maybe it's not interesting to a lot of people, but I'd really like to make content for the few who want that

[mistressofmuses]

I hate that spinning-in-circles feeling.

FWIW, I don't see a problem with including Darcelle in the fic, even considering the weird grey area that is including real people in a work of fiction. But I also think there's a difference between "this real person, who would really have been in this place at this time that the work is set, shows up" and "writing fiction that is *about* that real person." The second is what gets weird for me, even though I don't morally object to the existence of RPF. I mean, having her there is in some ways just realism in setting, and it almost seems like it'd be weirder NOT to have her there, if you're really getting into the accurate historical setting for that scene.

(That reminds me of the fact that the little historic indie theater in Denver was riiiight across the street from a kinky sex shop when I was younger. TBH, the stuff in the windows was just mannequins in leather and maybe some bondage gear, and while you could see some more explicit stuff if you stopped to *look*, it wasn't *that* scandalous. The sex shop still exists, but has moved off of its spot on Broadway. Still, it was an Experience for young-teen me, going to see something at that theater with my parents, lol.)

Those are certainly Some Words. I wish people weren't... weird about trans fic? And ugh, that's another thing that's hard to express well, because it's NOT being weird to find a trans character hot, it's NOT weird or wrong to want explicit fic of trans characters, it's not weird or wrong to want kinky fic of trans characters. I'm actually really super opposed to the idea that trans characters should be portrayed as chaste hand-holding g-rated cinnamon rolls or nothing.
But it just feels like this sort of overwhelming trend of *how* people talk about transmasc characters and what they want to see done to them etc. that starts to feel... weird to me. (I'd say "fetishizing", but I know that's one of those words that we put on the high shelf out of reach because of The Discourse abusing it.) Yet I don't want to *say* that, because it makes it sound like I think trans characters shouldn't fuck or shouldn't be kinky or can only have Certain Kinds Of Sex, and that's ALSO not what I mean.

[olivermoss]

I hope including her as part of the story of this town is respectful and honors her. She was a big part of several decades of Portland. She's not a main character, not a POV character, etc. Professional fic writers probably wouldn't even give it a second thought and considering some of the stuff written about Portland over the years, it's likely happened decades ago. I've just got some 'unseen pitfall's paranoia and any place where I could just ask RPF ficcers I know exactly what response I'd get, and would possible be considered sus for even asking due to current fandom climate.

Spartacus was opened as a flagship store for the BSDM community because they wanted more space and visibility than they could get in San Fran. Pre-internet, the west coast leather scene traveled here to buy supplies, or would catalog order from them. Per our laws, they could do what they want with the displays. It's not always sex swings and harnesses, but sometimes it is! We have dildo shops right next to the trendy bars that the instagram crowd comes for. How weird that is today I don't know, but until at least mid '10s it was shocking to tourists/newbs.

Yeah, it's tricky because people put their iddiest thoughts out there on main because that is how most websites work. Outside of here and discord, no separate channels and no spoiler cuts. (technically tumblr has cuts but that means no eye balls so... in practice it's not cut) It just gets to be a lot. I wouldn't mind some 'trans Eddie gets wrecked' fic once in a while but just being VERY aware of the overwhelming interest in that versus literally anything else...

Strangely the fandom has some very good trans art, including some sneaky trans art that's done well on reddit because some don't know what top surgery scars look like and well, the boys have scars! But, what the people want is endless 'I want to see that twink destroyed' In my Under Wide Skies series there will never be PIV, and it's unlikely in my longer fic. Basically, other sex acts exist and trans men can top. But man, the loud masses want 'trans man learns like like PIV and gets **** into passing out'. For an individual to want that, fine, but that being such an overwhelming wanted thing is... it's a thing.

[mistressofmuses]

I can very much understand the "unforeseen pitfalls" paranoia. Particularly with the current temperature of some parts of fandom, and the quest for moral superiority. But I do think that including her in the kind of story it sounds like you're telling would be a respectful thing. Her presence in Portland was an integral part of the queer scene.

That feels extremely Portland, haha. I don't actually know exactly how the space is regulated in Denver and surroundings... a lot of the sex shop stuff is pushed a bit to the outskirts, but I'm not sure how much is circumstantial/the price of rent vs. how much is where the spaces are allowed to operate. I don't think it was anyone feeling scandalized by the Crypt's old location on Broadway so much as Broadway got really expensive.
The thought of tourists wanting to pose for instagram pics and having to adjust their angles to hide the sex toy store next door delights me.

I genuinely don't object to people wanting to be horny on main, just like I don't object to the iddiest trash existing for people... but sometimes it can be a little jarring when it's just... RIGHT OUT THERE, no cut no warning.

"Trans Eddie gets wrecked" seems like the sort of iddy porn that absolutely has its place in fandom... but yeah, when that feels like a really overwhelming percentage of what people are looking for with a trans character, that... is a thing.

I have seen a few really nice pieces of trans art for the fandom! I really don't want to say that "ugh, the whole Steddie fandom is transphobic" because I think that's reductive and untrue. There's a lot of the fandom that seems super trans-friendly which is great! But I've heard other people complain about similarly prevalent trends in other fandoms when it comes to transmasc characters. There's nothing WRONG with having a trans man have or enjoy PIV sex, but it's not the ONLY possibility either. (Same with trans men getting pregnant. It's fine! But why is it SO COMMON?)

And that's basically exactly it. An individual finding that hot, or wanting to write or read that is fine. I'm not sideeyeing any single fan over it, nor do I think it says something specific or unfavorable about those individual fans... but when it feels like an overwhelming majority of what people are creating and looking for... it certainly is A Thing, and it starts to get squicky.

[olivermoss]

I don't know how we compare these days, but we used to have the most sex shops and the most bars per capita of anywhere, and part of that was out zoning laws. Because of where I am from, I do appreciate being able to get stuff in nice areas like I am picking up a pint of milk or something, especially since those store are also where to go for binders and other things.

Steddie fandom is great overall, but there are just a lot of things that happen when a fandom is this big. I like dw/lj/discord fandom where things are a bit more organized, rather than all in the same pot.

And speaking of the same pot, the people thirsting are a mix. It's not any one thing. I don't mind that all types of people use trans fanfic to work out their gender stuff, but I know some of the loudest people are very young people just starting to work on their own gender baggage for the first time. The loudest are not the majority, especially on twitter, but the loudest sure are the loudest.

I don't know for certain, but I've seen a lot of discourse suggesting that mpreg is problematic these days and trans men getting pregnant is progressive actually! So, A lot of what would have been mpreg ten years ago is pretending not to be. But also a lot of people do seem to thirst for knocked up trans guys so you've got A + B.

Individually it's fine, but how it all gets put together and how loud some parts of the mix are and how quiet some parts of the mix are just creates a weird situation.

[mistressofmuses]

I know that the town I went to college in - a muuuuuch more conservative area of the state - had super strict laws on anything like that. I don't think there even WAS a sex shop in there... we went to a neighboring city the couple times we wanted to go to one. They had bars... but up until fairly recently they still had blue laws for the county. (My then-girlfriend turned 21 on a Sunday, so had to wait until the day after for her to go actually buy a drink.)

Yeah, that's a fair point. Tumblr and Twitter and such are a lot more "everyone in one space!" than the more contained fandom hubs, which means there are a lot of tastes and trends that you have no real choice but to encounter.

And of course - there are a LOT of different ways people use fic to process things and explore things, both consciously and not. Loud isn't necessarily populous... but it is *LOUD*.

That's a good point I hadn't really thought about... Mpreg has always gotten a lot of shit for being on people's squick list, and I HAVE seen some discourse about how it's no longer just weird/squicky to some people personally, but problematic for anyone to write ever. Soooo there probably ARE a lot of people who would ordinarily have just gone the mpreg route, but are now going the *trans* mpreg route because that's the "progressive" way to dress the trope up.
Add that to the "no, the character being trans is part of the appeal" group, and that would explain the prevalence a bit more.

And yeah. I tend to feel very kink-tomato about individual stuff, even if it isn't the thing I'm into. (And sometimes it might be!) It's just the loudness for a few specific things over and over that starts to feel weird.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, there is just no way to get people to see the effects of their loudness. Most of them don't get basic things about the sites they are on, etc. And trying to have that conversation, especially on those sites, can misfire so badly.

And yeah, just such a minefield especially since mpreg and gender bending aren't okay anymore, but make it trans it's practically activism! It's like, a lot of people all saying the same things but for very, very different reasons, some of them hateful. And a lot of the people chanting a lot don't have the perspective to see that. I am very kinktomato, but it gets tiring to deal with how things are sometimes.

But, I should think less about all that and write some more.

[mistressofmuses]

It's also the sort of thing that is made a lot harder to have a reasonable conversation about because of the current fandom climate. When so much discussion has been completely taken over by anti-style "morality" discourse, there's a knee-jerk reaction that any critical statements at all are an attempt at policing how other people do fandom. With so many BAD faith criticisms (including the "mpreg is unforgiveably problematic and you're a horrible misogynistic homophobe if you write it") it gets really hard to have GOOD faith discussions about anything.

I love fandom, but holy HELL is it exhausting once you venture into the wilds outside of more curated spaces.

Though yeah, "write more" is probably the better use of time. :P

[olivermoss]

Yeah, honestly if people would just do the mpreg and the gender bending and 'woke up female' shit they want to do, would actually be a lot better than having a lot of other kinks wearing a trans facade to deflect shit.

[mistressofmuses]

Right? It's not that mpreg and gender bending and gender swap stuff could never be "problematic" or whatever, but... I feel like just using those tropes for the iddy stuff you want to play with, rather than trying to use trans stuff as "progressive set dressing" would be... better in a lot of ways. (Not that they CAN'T exist alongside trans characters, just that SOME stuff feels much more like it wishes it was one of the former, and feels forced to be the latter.)

Then when you actually WANT fic that's exploring trans stuff, you find a bunch of stuff that's a lot more suited to those other tropes than actual trans experience. (Though again, I'm not the "authentic trans storyline" police.) But declaring mpreg or genderbend etc. as ONLY being acceptable if you're using a trans character creates some uncomfortable conflations.

[olivermoss]

I feel like in general, fic is a lot less problematic when it's honest about what's going on and what the kinks are. Like, maybe have a fiction within the story, but at least have an honest label on the tin. I though it was going to be X, but it's Y is the cause of a lot of people running into stuff they didn't want.

Yeah, it's not possible to separate out the authentic trans from the kink, especially since some of the kink might be early identity exploration or comes out of an identity being repressed. But it is hard to navigate trans fic when so much of it is, just.... yeah.

[mistressofmuses]

I think that's very much it. I'd WAY rather read something that's upfront and honest about why it exists, and if it's kinky and what sort of kinky. That doesn't mean it's PWP - it could still be 100k of plot-heavy stuff, but I also want that honest tin-labeling! And like... I just feel like it's better for the fandom ecosystem. It's better for an author to feel "allowed" to write and explore whatever it is they want to, rather than feel weird pressure to disguise it as something it wasn't meant to be.

Mismatched expectations can't be fully prevented, because people will always have different ideas about how to tag or what sort of story they think they're telling. And sometimes something seems like it's kink but is actually buried identity stuff, and sometimes the author may not even realize it! But letting people write what they want and label it properly goes a LONG way toward limiting how often that "wanted X, this sounded like X, and turns out it's Y" thing. It's better for the writers and better for the readers.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, exactly, writers don't know know what they are putting in their own writing. It's impossible for it to be perfect. I've run into 'writer doesn't get they are kinking in infantilization' type stuff. But, if we can all just chill so people can at least make good faith efforts to label stuff right, that would be great.

Gender bending is a great way to explore gender. It's not 'appropriating transness'

[mistressofmuses]

I really wish fandom as a whole WOULD just chill, so that good-faith efforts to label things didn't put a writer at risk for dogpiling if the wrong person sees it and decides to get mad about it.

And that's very much it. Exploring a theme in a completely fantasy setting is one of the most amazing things that fiction can provide! Telling people they aren't allowed to play around with themes and ideas and explorations is crappy!