Fanfic Trello - Spooky Season Looms Edition

[olivermoss]

* I've posted another BG3 story, so I am at 3/7 of WIPs done. I may or may not do them all, but I've got a lot done. So far, all Astarion/Tav

I sort of have another one done, I am just not happy with the ending note. It's just the last line that's bugging me.

* It's September. The plan was for my BG3 feels to turn into pumpkins so I can get back to my Stranger Things stories as soon as the month turned over. My brain is not that organized, though.

Thing is my Stranger Things stories are like 'Steddie against he backdrop of well researched era VHS piracy where there are parallels in searching outside what society directs us to in both media and relationships' and my BG3 fic is pretty much 'elf thief vampire man hot'

* I am impressed people are even finding my BG3 fic since the Astarion/Tav tag is a hot mess. All the readerfic and original character/Astarion stuff is also tagged Astarion/Tav. While there is reason for some fic to overlap, a lot of it is just tag bloat.

Comments

[mistressofmuses]

I really do love the difference between "this intensely researched and thematically deep work" fandom vs "he's like, real hot" fandom.

Oof, sucks that the tag is a mess. I *really* wish there were a consistent way to filter out readerfic at least! No shade toward it, but it's literally never what I'm looking for, and I wish I could avoid it, while maybe making its target audience more likely to find it.

[olivermoss]

Over-tagging is just what people do these days. There is no way to get the readerfic off of the other tags.

[mistressofmuses]

Yeah. I feel like I struggle with tagging, but more because I'm prone to *under*tagging, and am just not sure what things people might use to search for what I'm writing.

I have definitely noticed how much stuff is overtagged... whether from deliberate attempts to mistag in the hopes of getting more clicks, or from the sort of overabundance of caution that gets ridiculous ("better tag blood because in chapter 7 out of 30 a character gets a papercut"). But a lot of readerfic seems to be deliberately crosstagged, even when it shouldn't be. Bleh.

[olivermoss]

I just don't think to use some tags I really should. In large fandoms people filter a lot and I should be tagging more. I've started keeping a list of tags like first time, established relationship, etc so I don't forget them

[mistressofmuses]

Same. I try to toss at least a couple tags up in the freeform section, but sometimes I struggle to think of what really applies. (And more often than I'd have thought, I feel like there's an obvious tag, but it turns out it isn't a canonical one. So I can put it up, but no one will filter to it.) That's a good idea, though: I should list tags that I take note of, so that I can use them if applicable.

[olivermoss]

I would love a list of canonical tags so I can just read through what people can actually filter on! I've wanted this for years. I wasn't able to get a list even when I knew tag wranglers. Readers tend to search more by tags that are useful and I don't even know how to figure that out. I just eyeball other people's fics and see if the tags fit mine.

Like, there is tag for consensual tentacle sex to help monster fans find tentacle stuff that isn't the usual and fans of of that track the tag, and that tag is highly relevant to some BG3 ships... but how is anyone supposed to know that?

[mistressofmuses]

Right? I know there's some way to see what tags are all wrangled together under a parent tag, but I never remember how to find that information. This page gives the most popular tags, but it's weird looking at that cloud of tags and realizing that some of them are ones I don't remember *ever* seeing used despite their evident popularity, lol.
The "random" button on there spits out a pretty extensive cloud of randomly selected tags, though it's not the same as a usable list.

But for real. There are EXCELLENT tags that could very well help find your audience, because it's something niche but extremely descriptive... but if that's not where you're used to reading, it's hard to know it's there! Poking around and looking at other fics in the same fandom/same ship is probably the best way to learn the conventions of the specific fandom and hopefully how readers will be looking for things, but... sometimes there's not a lot to go on. Or the stuff you're writing isn't actually all that similar to the rest. Or some other tag set would genuinely fit better, but no one in this fandom is using it yet.

[olivermoss]

I wonder when that cloud was generated because 'LGBTQ Themes' seems like a very... LJ-era tag to me. I can't imagine it's a common one to search on. I looked at that tag and it looks like maybe a lot of other tags are synned to it? Because I am seeing a lot of fics that don't tag that specifically, but do tag 'lesbian'. That feels like a LJ-era holdover. I did a Find on the first page of results and there were only 3 instances of the word theme and one was in the header.

It's just hard for me to get a handle on how people look for fics. Tagging my most recent Sentinel AU fic correctly probably lost me most of my potential readership. Next time I'll know, be an asshole!

A lot of my fic is a step or half-step off of the usual stuff, so figuring out how to make it findable is a big struggle. I don't know what people are using to search on, and again... I don't know what the canonicals are and what is sent to freeform. Like my trans fic is what I see asked for a lot, but is also different from most of what gets written.

[mistressofmuses]

I'm guessing you're right and those are actually the most popular tags... including all the things that are synned to them. Because yeah, LGBTQ Themes is... not how I think most people would tag *or* what people would look for, even if it's not *wrong.* But if it has a bunch of other things synned to it, then some of those are probably more relevant to current tagging conventions and usage. I know there is a way to see what things are synned to what parent tag, but that's the thing I never remember how to do! Plus it doesn't directly help the issue of "but what things are canonical".

I feel like I genuinely have little idea of how people look for things, either. I mean, I tend to find things because someone reblogged a fic or shared it in a comm here and it sounds interesting... and then because I had fun with it, I either click to the author's other stuff or the tag that feels the most relevant to what I enjoyed about it. I'll also search by ship, especially if I'm getting into a new fandom, but if it's a juggernaut fandom, that doesn't help narrow things down alone. So my own search habits don't much help guide me on how to tag for anyone else, ha.
I LOVE AO3's searchability, and how easy it is to specifically include or exclude something to narrow down results... but I don't know what things I can or should tag to help any given thing find its audience. Lol, it sucks when tagging something appropriately seems to hinder rather than help!

But that's definitely a real struggle... when stuff is shifted just off the mainline for how a trope or a ship is typically written, it's hard for it to find the right audience/hard for the right audience to find it. (And I hate when I really *like* something that's a step to the side from the usual portrayal... and then can't find *anything else like it* because everything else hews a lot closer to whatever the fandom norm is, and that's all I see in the tag.)

Because yeah, I'm not sure what things are canonical, and which things have remained unsynned/loose/unwrangled/whatever the appropriate term is. If it comes up as a suggested tag, then I guess you know that's a canonical, but that only helps once you're actually in the process of tagging.

[olivermoss]

Probably the best thing to do is to work around the tags a little by self-promoting fic but, as I've said before, I just can't. It requires constantly feeding the beast and ugh. I'd rather just write and be salty. Maybe if I had more fic done I'd bother with promo.

To be fair, I do have a few places I can post. Here, some discords, etc. My stuff may not get the bumps from twitter and tumblr fandom, but it's not dead in the water. Readers trickle in. It's not unfindable. I just wish I could do stuff to promo my fic that didn't involve *waves hand at lots of things*

[mistressofmuses]

I feel like I'm allergic to the idea of having to self-promote, lmao. I *know* that's the best thing to do, and I also know that I'm in favor of it from other writers and artists and am grateful when it introduces me to things I wind up loving, but I just loathe the idea of having to do it for my own stuff.
The "constantly feeding the beast" requirement is probably the worst of it. I *don't* want to build an audience or have to spend my time making posts about my stuff. It's the same reason I have no real interest in formal publishing, even if I were getting my original stuff written.

So yeah, I understand what you mean. I could try to be more active in the fandomy spaces where I could share my stuff, because that'd be the way to find the right potential eyes. I just don't wanna, and it's not how I want to spend the time I already struggle to manage.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, also being a mod makes self promo hard... especially when you deal with the complaints when others post too often. The promo I do gets me maybe 2 or 3 readers, but there is still a huge difference between getting at least a trickle and DOA / unfindable / totally buried.

Being that on top of fandom and keeping that engagement up is a lot of work, stress, mental load, etc. It's important to not burn yourself out.

[mistressofmuses]

That's true as well. As long as there's a culture of allowing/encouraging self-promo, and the rules aren't different for mods, then I don't think it's ever bothered me for a mod to share their own works. But I can understand it feeling weird, especially if other people in the group have been annoyed by excessive (whether genuine or perceived) self-promo. (And I have been in groups where the mods shared their own stuff far more often, or pinned the posts, or other things that weren't allowed for anyone else, and that DOES get annoying.)

Getting even a few eyes on your thing is definitely worlds better than utter silence! It's good to know that something hasn't just dropped into a bottomless pit, never to be seen.

Agreed. I know that trying to be that on top of things would require basically treating it like a job, and I don't have the time or energy for that. It would be absolute burnout, and so I just have to be content with whoever finds my stuff despite my very passive approach, haha.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I just have residue from the LJ era where mod self promo was a problem, but it's really not here and not in the ways any reasonable person would do them.

I wish there was a happy medium way to get stuff out there. Because, in and of itself, self promo isn't a bad thing! It's positive, almost self care. But the only ways to do it in fandom with fic are just... not great. The impulse is good, the tools we have to do it are not good tools.

[mistressofmuses]

Oh yeah. That history of mods taking advantage of their comms has cast a long shadow. But I really don't think it's an issue here.

Agreed. I *do* like self-promo, and follow a lot of artists and writers because I *want* to see the stuff they create! I also think that creatives should be proud of their work!
But it's hard with fic. Agreed that the tools just aren't great, maybe particularly when so many platforms are geared so much more toward visuals.

[olivermoss]

I really want to promote my fic. I'd love more readers and feel like I have audiences out there, but I just can't reach them. And yeah, the tools for promoting fic are just bad and writers being comparative makes it so much worse.

[mistressofmuses]

I feel like that's the worst part - feeling like there IS a potential audience, and feeling unable to find it. It's not just number-chasing, I don't *want* the focus that comes from becoming a BNF or anything like that. But if we write things and share them, I DO think it's pretty natural that, well, we want the people who'd like that thing to find that thing!

I do find I miss when rec lists were more of a thing. There were certainly problems with them - there was a lot of "including the BNF because they're a BNF, not because the fic is that good", there was plenty of amazing work that was still overlooked, cliquishness could also mean "this fic is amazing, but we don't want to appear as if we like the author, so no", etc. - but that's also how I've found some really fantastic works that I otherwise would never have seen or clicked on. (And also way too many that are on my "marked for later", but...)
Yet I don't read enough fic to really provide rec lists, and I'm not sure I'd be better at describing or hyping someone else's work than I am at my own.

But agreed. There aren't good tools that currently exist to promote fic. So much social media (and soc-med-lite sites) are so much more visually-focused it's hard to share writing, unless you're *also* creating art for it, or want to edit graphics with pithy quotes or something.
And then writers do get both comparative and competitive, in ways that aren't beneficial to anyone.

[olivermoss]

Part of my frustration is that I tend to learn about tags / places for reccs / etc way after the fast, after fandom has moved on and the authors are suddenly talking instead of keeping secrets.

But the good news is that my BG3 fics aren't doing bad despite the tags being a hot mess. It's not a fully intractable situation, but it's hard to not look back on BS of the past and just the effect of people being more interested in being competitive than anything else.

Mostly what I see these days is recc channels on discords. They aren't as curated as lists, but they've been through at least one pass of vetting to get there. Even if you don't like interacting on discords, finding some so you can add your stuff and things you like into the mix might be good? Unless that stresses you out. Some people just don't click with discord, fortunately I enjoy it

[mistressofmuses]

Oh yeah. Late to a fandom/ship/space is a repeat problem, haha. But that does often be when things start to be... clearer. Either the general retrospective "now we can see what worked, what stuck, etc., rather than being in the midst of different opinions" thing, or just because yeah, it's no longer being treated like trade secrets.

I'm glad the BG3 stuff is doing well! I know it's certainly in-demand at the moment, so I'm glad people are finding it! Though yeah, people have way too often behaved like fandom is some zero-sum game where they need to get a leg up on the competition rather than... y'know, being part of a fandom community.

I need to try and vibe with discord better. I like it okay, but I'm bad at checking it, and once I get too many notifications stacked up, or conversations have moved on to too great a degree, I feel overwhelmed trying to jump back in. I think it IS the most viable fandom home these days, and you're right - recc channels ARE a pretty common thing. So that's probably where I need to go... if I can find the right servers, ha.

[olivermoss]

Even when I am right on time for a fandom, I am not in the loops until too late. Though, with BG3 I might be very on time because most people still haven't finished the game and it's just now hitting consoles. Fandom may have legs because there are the previous BG games, previous Larian games, all the books referenced in the game and general D&D more... basically people wanting more have several options. I just need to about whatever discourse happens. Right now I mostly see 'wah my favorite isn't the juggernaut so I am all lone' and it's like... wtf...

I don't allow most discord notifications. For me the app can only speak when spoken to. It's a lot more overwhelming if you don't put it in it's place.

[mistressofmuses]

I think BG3 also has a LOT of replayability - SO many different choices, so many different ways to play it, etc. - that it will hopefully have fairly long legs. People who play differently and hit different character arcs or whatnot may have new things they're looking for fic-wise. Plus yeah, there's a lot of additional content beyond the game for people who want it, which will hopefully keep the interest fresh.

It's always wild to me when people seem to judge every fandom and ship by the true juggernaut standards. Like... they came from Destiel or Steve/Bucky or whatever, and now their ship *only* having 5000 or 10000 works or whatever makes them call it a *rarepair.* Lmao.

Maybe that would help! I feel like if I nix notifications I could forget it entirely as out of sight, out of mind. (Which is why I like... can't manage ebooks. I can start a book, enjoy it, put it down, and not open my kindle app for six months.) Buuuut, if I didn't feel overwhelmed, I'd probably be more inclined to open the app by choice, haha. I should also probably just leave a few of the servers that are the most overwhelming. A bunch were general writing servers that I hoped I'd vibe with, but judging by just HOW fast and busy some clearly are, I know they probably aren't what I want.

[olivermoss]

Yeah, I want to do 3 branches off of my first playthrough and a few more playthroughs just to see content I want. I will never see all of it, I cannot ever recruit Minthara for example, but still that is a lot.

I am currently doing a Gale origin playthrough. It is a big game!

I am used to rarepairs or small fandoms so all the angst over their fave not being the main focus of fandom is baffling to me.

When I join a server I usually mute channels and do other stuff. I can easily see how it can get overwhelming, but fortunately I vibe with it.

[mistressofmuses]

There are some routes in RPGs that I will just always have to resign myself never to seeing. Being Mean Is Not Nice and all. (And I can only bring myself to be *so* mean.)

It's a HUGE game, and while I'm sure there are things you may decide *not* to do on a replay, there's endlessly more to do, it seems like.

Right? Lol. I've poked at fandoms where I was surprised to find three whole fics for the ship, haha. I've looked for a fandom and found absolutely nothing!
People feeling like they can't participate in fandom/are prevented from doing so just because their fave character or their fave ship isn't the fandom fave... come on. It's almost always "why is mine the THIRD favorite" too, not even like "wow, this popular fandom only has five fics about my blorbo" or whatever.
It's probably not fair, but it feels like a "kids these days" thing, lol.

That's probably a good idea... I could probably make discord a more pleasant experience for myself by curating it a little more carefully. I just need to sit down and figure it out a little better than I have, I think.

[olivermoss]

I can't ever do a mean playthrough, and I am part of a very large section of fandom that will never recruit a specific companion because of it. Doesn't matter how good her arc is.... especially don't expect people in fandom to make that choice.

I will be selectively expedient, though. Fate of the sword coast and all I think every once in a while going 'you, help out get out of my way' is legit. Oh, you're hunting my friend? We could talk about... or... Hey look at me he's definitely not sneaking up behind you.

Also, even a lot of PC players haven't finished the game yet. I wish I had more fic done, but also this fandom isn't doing the spike/fall off that other fandoms do.

[mistressofmuses]

Oh yeah. I've heard the requirement for that specific recruitment, and yeah, I think a bunch of people are not going to be willing to genocide a whole group to get that plotline.

But yeah, that's often my experience with replaying things (even if few are expansive and sprawling as BG3!) There are quests that are never ever skips because I love them so much, and there are things that I'm glad I did once but don't care to do again, and there are ones where I need to finish this objective but I will do the absolute minimum for it, not the long version.

Right!
Taylor just posted today that they finally made it inside Baldur's Gate! At 85 hours!

I'm impressed even as an outsider how much fandom content I'm seeing. Lots of tumblrs I follow are posting fanart and screenshots and meta and things, even though I didn't follow any of them for BG3. I'm enjoying my new fandom-in-law, lol. I'm glad it didn't spike and die off right away.

[olivermoss]

Also, that group is seen as a metaphor for something.... I hate it when people are like 'this companion gets no love because people pick the dude companion' and it's like.... just up the shut fuck that's not what's happening. I'd love another companion in the mix for my replays.

Yeah, there is a lot. Sadly, I was almost too completionist on my first playthrough. I am a map completion addict. I chew the scenery making sure I am hitting the edges.

Yup, 85 hours is a very legit time to finally get to the city. I played super blind and think it took me even longer.

Neil's said there is 2 hours of content no one's triggered yet. I assumed he was misinformed because surely it would have been data mined, but today someone found a chunk of content that doesn't involve Astarion and wasn't datamined so the idea that there are things literally no one has triggered yet is looking possible. Also, each romance storyline is probably different and has custom content.

[mistressofmuses]

Right? Tieflings? You went for tieflings, specifically??? Yeah, lots of people are never getting that plotline unlocked. (Though yeah, there will always be frustrating segments of fandom utterly missing the point on why people make (or don't make) the choices that they do.)

Lol, I HAVE to complete my maps, hahaha. GOTTA.

I love that the game is as open as it is. It's wild how much playtime you can clock just... doing whatever you want to be doing. I remain impressed!

Holy crap! I'm extra astounded that there's anything that absolutely ZERO players have hit! That does seem possible, just... very surprising, considering!